Here are some concrete numbers with the new Fire and Brimstone, testing Incinerate with and without Immolate, at 2 fixed gear levels. All proccing gear removed.

Incinerate tooltip is 698-812, for an average of 755 damage baseline. If Incinerate actually gives bonus damage equivalent to a percentage of the base damage, and F&B increases that bonus from 25% to 55%, we would expect an average of 415.25. The samples are close to that.

But this still translates to a very inferior talent. About a 220 increase in damage per Incinerate would translate to maybe a 5% increase in Incinerate-only DPS for those hitting with 4400 incinerates, which is pretty easy to do in raids. But the bigger issue is that this is a fixed additive DPS increase, and will not scale with gear. You'll get that 220 increase per immo hit at 0 Spell Power, 2000 Spell Power, and 10000 Spell Power. This means that the value of F&B goes down as you gear up, and means that Deep Destro will now scale worse than it did before. Also, the extra damage won't benefit from spell power buffs or procs. It's a bad talent for Tier 10.

Given the hit to Immolate from the F&B change which also affects Conflagarate, and the Conflagarage Glyph change which will cause more cast time to be devoted to Immolate and ticks of Immolate are consumed, I expect this to be a net DPS decrease for Deep Destro at high gear levels, not a buff.

And we lose a DoT tick from Immolate. We also lose a Conflag at the beginning of the rotation, and need to spend time recasting Immolate more often.

You're right. If all of the changes are taken together, then it may end up being a net DPS increase. I'll wait for Simcraft code changes before making the call. However, having a Tier 10 talent be a flat damage add with no scaling is ridiculous.

My grudge with all of the destro changes is that my favorite part of the Destro spec was that it applied it's damage fast, even if it wasn't the highest DPS spec. You could go from 0 to 60 very quickly with it, which made it ideal for fights where you had to burst smaller targets down quickly (like Emalon's adds), or had to do damage to the target quickly in a small window to win the fight (XT002's heart, Kolgoran's Hand). Immolate, Chaos, Conflagarate, Incineratex3 is some of the best damage you can do in under 10 seconds.

Removing Glyph of Conflagarate's functionality eliminates a lot of this capability. You have to throw Immolate back in there, and you'll lose a tick of Immolate in that burst pattern (Immolate, Chaos, Conflagarate, Immolate, Incineratex2). I'm pretty sure that this outweighs the new 10% to 3 spells buff, but again I'll wait for Simcraft before deciding.

And this is the same way Chaos Bolt is designed, if I recall correctly. Or are they attempting to "fix" that with these changes?

Rather then change the conflag glyph would be nice if they changed conflag to automatically renew immolate. So you use it with a few seconds left but never have to recast it either. Would give you best of both worlds and not loose last tick.

Your thinking is correct. an extra 10% damage added onto 3 spells (one being forced to be immo) probably won't compensate for fewer conflags per minute since we are forced to wait out Immolate's duration. Making it worse, we're back to clipping dots and wasting Backdraft on immolate. This essentially destroys the 0/40/31 build entirely as well (which I've grown quite fond of). As much as I'd like to think the deep destro changes will result in a net DPS gain the fact that we're dealing with an already watered down destro tree with the absence of Molten Core and an even more screwed up Conflag mechanics just makes the whole thing seem like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound.

new quote from GC:

On Incinerate:

The tooltip says "Deals 582 to 676 Fire damage to your target and an additional 145 to 169 Fire damage if the target is affected by an Immolate spell." What you can't see from the tooltip is that the spell really says "Deals X Fire damage to your target and an additional X * 0.25 Fire damage if the target is affected by an Immolate spell." What the talent changes does is change that X * 0.25 Fire damage to X * 0.55 Fire damage.

On Conflagrate:

We think at this point we might leave the glyph as it is on live (doesn't consume the Immolate), but we may still iterate some on the design on the PTR. Let us know if you actually get on and try it out.

On Immolate:

Some players are reporting a bug on the PTR with Immolate not scaling correctly with spell power (which will also affect Conflagrate). We're looking into it. We don't think this will affect the live version of the spells.

gess they gonna leave conflag glyph intact.

I still can't get over the feeling that GC things incin does (base damage + spell power * coef) * (1.25 if immo on target) when all the testing shows it does (base damage * 1.25 if immo is on the target) + spell power * coef. So if I'm recalling the coefficients correctly, there's a difference of 0.2325 * spell power between the versions.

The conflag glyph revert is interesting, but I'm still not sure if the other changes are a dps gain or loss. We lose 15% immo damage, conflag stays as it is on live (immo loss counter balanced by the move from 70% to 80%) and gain ~200 damage per incinerate.

Looking at a random WWS of us in Ulduar10, I see my immolate did 2,303,069 damage over the night, so losing the 15% costs me ~300k damage. I threw 1040 incinerates. At 200 xtra damage each, thats only adding 200k. So I think its a net loss in dps at the moment.

More iteration:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Conflag Change Clarification
So the 3.1.2 changes are the conflagrate multipler change (70% to 80%) and the F+B change (which transfers damage from immolate/conflagrate to incinerate/chaos bolt, and broadens the 25% conflagrate crit bonus to all conflagrates). That feels about right to re-buff deep destro in pve, or maybe a little too much, but we'll see. If the Incinerate 25% bonus from immolate was "supposed to" apply multiplicatively after spellpower all along, I'm guessing that fixing that now would be way too much without a corresponding nerf.

Making Incinerate Bonus from immolate scale with spell power along with the new F&B looks too much of a buff in my eyes :P.
Also as far as i understood conflag is getting 25% crit chance no matter the duration making pyroclasm uptime considerably higher, Cant wait to see the updated talents on the Sim.

Given GC's last round of news, I performed new simulations after implementing the following changes:

- Conflagrate multiplier off immolate up 70% -> 80%.
- F&B no longer affects Immolate.
- F&B grants +25% static crit chance to Conflag.
- F&B grants +15% multiplicative damage to incinerate and CB if the target is affected by immolate.

I pasted below results for the Warlock_T8_03_13_55 profile. As you can see, it would be quite a huge buff, putting deep destro just below affliction with doomguard and well ahead of everything else.

DPS: 6829 -> 7569

Detailed breakdown:

Player=Warlock_T8_03_13_55 DPS=7568.8 (Error=+/-10.9 Range=+/-508) DPR=24.5 RS=308.7/262.8 (mana)
Core Stats: strength=54 agility=55 stamina=1112 intellect=978 spirit=507 health=14465 mana=18684
Spell Stats: power=2348 hit=11.1% crit=20.0% penetration=0 haste=13.8% mp5=0
Attack Stats power=44 hit=8.9% crit=16.2% expertise=0.0 penetration0.0 haste=13.8%
Defense Stats: armor=110
Actions:
chaos_bolt Count= 20.4|14.7sec DPE=11820|11% DPET= 8437 DPR= 48.6 Miss=0.0% Hit=7823 Crit=16372|19291|46.8%
conflagrate Count= 27.7|10.9sec DPE=11964|15% DPET= 8929 DPR= 21.5 Miss=0.0% Hit=6837 Crit=14291|16844|68.8%
curse_of_doom Count= 4.0|61.5sec DPE=16726| 3% DPET=12228 DPR= 30.7 Miss=0.0% TickCount=4 Tick=16764
immolate Count= 19.0|15.9sec DPE=11450|10% DPET=10219 DPR= 19.4 Miss=0.0% Hit=2166 Crit= 4521| 5269|46.0% TickCount=93 Tick=1678
incinerate Count=120.4| 2.4sec DPE=10010|53% DPET= 6454 DPR= 20.6 Miss=0.0% Hit=6392 Crit=13370|16105|51.8%
imp
fire_bolt Count=161.1| 1.9sec DPE= 1261| 9% DPET= 680 DPR= 7.0 Miss=2.9% Hit=1191 Crit= 1788| 2051|17.4%

It wasn't said much, but it is generally accepted since the conflag nurfs and the 2pc t8 bonus and the immo glyph nerf incin is the better glyph.