SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 91

angaroth · 05/03/09, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by supplicium

It wasn't said much, but it is generally accepted since the conflag nurfs and the 2pc t8 bonus and the immo glyph nerf incin is the better glyph.

The OP has not been updated to reflect that opinion, even with the T8 configs. Pre-2pcT8 is also the situation for a number of people - although possibly not on EJ.

Jax883 · 05/03/09, 4:56 PM

With the newest changes lending a 15% bonus to Incinerate damage I wonder if the Glyph of Incinerate needs re-assessing against the default line-up of Conflag, Immolate and Life Tap.

I'm inclined to agree that the incin glyph would now take precedence over immolate. Assuming the conflag glyph eventually does go foward, I'm curious to know if the chaos bolt glyph would warrant another look through simcraft, as those extra two seconds could potentially produce another cb during each minute of an encounter.

It seems as though they're trying to discourage the hybrid specs/encourage single-tree specialization without completely crippling deep destro in the process.

• Zakalwe · 05/04/09, 7:20 AM

The OP has been updated to reflect the PTR changes. Sorry about the delay, I've been out of town for a bit.

Edit: Updated the OP again after adding 0/13/58, the deep destro spec with replenishment.

Reuben · 05/04/09, 9:34 AM

I noticed on the OP that the replenish spec forgoes LT Glyph and am glad to see that was tested. I actually made this change early last week after running all available raids, but am not one to post based on how things "felt". Lack of 4pc T7 and having both 2pc bonus' really made it seem the obvious choice given the lack of mana issues in the replen build. That said I kept the LT Glyph in the fel/ember build due to the need to actually LT more and obviously lack of conflag in the talent build. Just as the chart shows both are strong builds and either can outperform the other depending raid/group composition.

semanthe · 05/04/09, 10:52 AM

I just noticed the changes to the OP regarding possible upcoming changes. I want to try out the destro/replenishment spec, however, I am confused at the rotation. Reading the OP, I didn't see any DOTs minus CoD in the rotation at all. Is this right? Also, I thought all specs used spellstone...or is this just because we do not have the improved Spellstone from demo tree so Firestone becomes better? I am running 41/30 build right now and love it, but it would be nice to have a second spec with less pet dependence. Mimiron demolishes my felguard....

Grimrage · 05/04/09, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by semanthe

I just noticed the changes to the OP regarding possible upcoming changes. I want to try out the destro/replenishment spec, however, I am confused at the rotation. Reading the OP, I didn't see any DOTs minus CoD in the rotation at all. Is this right? Also, I thought all specs used spellstone...or is this just because we do not have the improved Spellstone from demo tree so Firestone becomes better? I am running 41/30 build right now and love it, but it would be nice to have a second spec with less pet dependence. Mimiron demolishes my felguard....

I still qualify Immolate as a DoT so it has that as well. The only one it doesn't use is Corruption. You guessed right. The lack of Master Conjurer means the haste rating isn't enough to overcome the 1% increase to direct spells. Considering how much of your damage is DD, the Firestone wins out.

ShaidarLock · 05/04/09, 11:54 AM

Alright guys, I can't for the life of me figure out how it's possible for 0/13/58 to be above 3/13/55 as it gains no dps talents and has to itemize for hit. The only thing I can think of is that the later assumes no replenishment sources at all and thus looses cast time to an extra LT or two? Is that why the Inc count is 7 less for the +hit build?

Edit: thanks guys I'd over looked the glyphs.

• Zakalwe · 05/04/09, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by ShaidarLock

Alright guys, I can't for the life of me figure out how it's possible for 0/13/58 to be above 3/13/55 as it gains no dps talents and has to itemize for hit. The only thing I can think of is that the later assumes no replenishment sources at all and thus looses cast time to an extra LT or two? Is that why the Inc count is 7 less for the +hit build?

Improved Soul Leech provides more than just replenishment.

North · 05/04/09, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by ShaidarLock

I can't for the life of me figure out how it's possible for 0/13/58 to be above 3/13/55 as it gains no dps talents and has to itemize for hit.

Glyphs differ.

Asmodaeus · 05/04/09, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by ShaidarLock

Alright guys, I can't for the life of me figure out how it's possible for 0/13/58 to be above 3/13/55 as it gains no dps talents and has to itemize for hit. The only thing I can think of is that the later assumes no replenishment sources at all and thus looses cast time to an extra LT or two? Is that why the Inc count is 7 less for the +hit build?

It's been shown before why it is so. It has nothing to do with the changes, it has to do with the set bonuses on tier gear.

With 4p t7, Glyph of Life Tap and no Improved Soul Leech outdpses specs with ISL.
With both t8 bonuses, Glyph of Immolate + Glyph of Incinerate + ISL outdpses specs without ISL and with Glyph of Life Tap.
ISL and Glyph of Life Tap don't mix, since that would give you more mana than you could use.

Specs with ISL tap less often, not because of Replenishment, but because of the mana gained from the original effect of ISL (the 2% bit of the talent description).

Odeen · 05/04/09, 12:32 PM

Zak, could you add 0/13/58 to the scale factors list please, as I don't believe its up on the wiki yet so I can't mess with it myself. Mainly I'm curious to see how much spirit scaling slips due to not using the glyph and life tapping less. Also, I bet int takes a minor bump over the other builds.

gherkin · 05/04/09, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Odeen

Zak, could you add 0/13/58 to the scale factors list please, as I don't believe its up on the wiki yet so I can't mess with it myself. Mainly I'm curious to see how much spirit scaling slips due to not using the glyph and life tapping less. Also, I bet int takes a minor bump over the other builds.

For the glyph part, you could take the Spell Power scaling from a similar build and multiply it by .2 (Glyph bonus) and subtract this from the Spirit scaling to get a rough estimate.

In this case, Spell Power is around 1.35 and Spirit is around .85, so
.85 - (1.35 x .2) = ~ .58

Due to Fel Armor, it can't dip below (.39 x 1.35) = ~.53, so there's a small window.
That is if I'm not mistaken in how Spell Power scaling affects Spirit.

Skellum · 05/04/09, 1:54 PM

Would it be possible to run a parse of those specs using only sub 35% hp Boss data? A large portion of the fights in Ulduar are not Patchwerk style fights, the time on many of them in which 35% and less is the fight itself is pretty high, Yogg, Mimiron and essentialy Razorscale all may warrent having this data known. If its too much trouble I apologize for asking, your simcraft data has been amazingly helpful to me in my time being here and I thank you very much for it.

Burberri · 05/04/09, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by Skellum

Would it be possible to run a parse of those specs using only sub 35% hp Boss data? A large portion of the fights in Ulduar are not Patchwerk style fights, the time on many of them in which 35% and less is the fight itself is pretty high, Yogg, Mimiron and essentialy Razorscale all may warrent having this data known. If its too much trouble I apologize for asking, your simcraft data has been amazingly helpful to me in my time being here and I thank you very much for it.

You could run the simcraft without death's embrace and the succi and then multiply the result by 1.12.

nuibank · 05/04/09, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by Burberri

You could run the simcraft without death's embrace and the succi and then multiply the result by 1.12.

That still wouldn't account for soulfire weaving and drain soul.