SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 95

gregorian · 12/27/09, 10:48 PM

There's no question, really. Eventually you would want to get 4pc, which would cost you 310-345 Frost, cf 240-270 Conquest for T9.66 (i245). Also consider that ICC is gated content; flow of frost badges is slow. So getting your 4pT10 is probably going to take you at least twice as long as you did for 4pT9. IMO save up and buy 2 pieces, work toward 3rd and 4th piece, THEN get the extras.

Evyle · 12/29/09, 6:10 PM

Check your stat weights and see how much a DPS increase each part would add (based on stats alone). Find then your best two based on your particular spec. Then save up enough badges to buy up both of them before buying either one. For myself, using an affliction spec, the Shoulder and Head for T10 represent the largest dps upgrade based on my current gear (both of those parts have crit/haste vs the old spirit/crit on the T9). I am not buying either of them as of yet since I can not purchase both as of yet due to the possibility that a nice alternative drops from ICC25.

As another poster did point out, you will eventually need to buy 4 (maybe 5) parts T10 to be able to upgrade them. Where for that nice badge belt you may end up getting a lucky drop. So, for me I am going with the two parts T10 in 2 weeks time or so.

Voraster · 12/30/09, 8:00 PM

I would really appreciate some cross-checking of items, stats and numbers.(and I also don't say no to 'thanks'

)

Using Madlax's set as a jumping off point, I tried to improve upon it. Eventually spirit got so low on the 13/58 set that substituting Glyph of Immolate for Glyph of Life Tap was a substantial DPS gain. Please critique and improve.

0/13/58 DPS = 11847
scaling: sp=1.9162, haste=1.2953, crit=1.2056, spirit=0.8562

#!./simc 

warlock=meh_isl
level=80
race=undead
professions=tailoring=450/enchanting=450
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=9&tal=000000000000000000000000000003220030003000000000000000005203205210331051335230351
glyphs=imp/conflagrate/incinerate/enslave_demon/drain_soul/unending_breath
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=fish_feast
actions+=/fire_stone
actions+=/fel_armor
actions+=/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/wild_magic_potion,bloodlust=1
actions+=/conflagrate
actions+=/immolate
actions+=/chaos_bolt
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=80
actions+=/incinerate
actions+=/corruption,time_to_die>=20,moving=1
actions+=/curse_of_agony,time_to_die>=30,moving=1
actions+=/life_tap
head=sanctified_dark_coven_hood,stats=300armor_114crit_106haste_186sp_139sta_139int,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=amulet_of_the_silent_eulogy,stats=60hit_68haste_110sp_78sta_78int,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp
shoulders=sanctified_dark_coven_shoulderpads,stats=277armor_90crit_82haste_150sp_103sta_103int,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
chest=sanctified_dark_coven_robe,stats=369armor_122crit_106haste_195sp_139sta_139int,gems=10haste_12sp_23sp_7sp,enchant=10str_10agi_10sta_10int_10spi
waist=crushing_coldwraith_belt,stats=208armor_74crit_90haste_140sp_103sta_103int,gems=23sp_23sp_23sp
legs=sanctified_dark_coven_leggings,stats=323armor_106hit_122crit_195sp_139sta_139int,gems=12sp_10spi_12sp_10haste_7sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=plague_scientists_boots,stats=254armor_74crit_90haste_140sp_103sta_103int,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=15sta
wrists=death_surgeons_sleeves,stats=162armor_60crit_110sp_78sta_78int_68spi,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=sanctified_dark_coven_gloves,stats=231armor_82hit_90crit_150sp_103sta_103int,gems=23sp,enchant=28sp
finger1=ashen_band_of_endless_destruction,stats=51hit_64haste_101sp_73sta_73int,gems=10hit_12sp_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=ring_of_rapid_ascent,stats=60haste_68crit_110sp_78sta_78int,gems=23sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=reign_of_the_dead,stats=168sp,equip=onspelldirectcrit_2117fire_3stack_2.0cd
trinket2=dislodged_foreign_object,stats=170haste,equip=onspellcast_121sp_10stack_10%_20dur_45cd_2tick
back=frostbinders_shredded_cape,stats=185armor_60haste_110sp_78sta_78int_68crit,gems=12sp_10haste_5sp,enchant=23haste
main_hand=rigormortis,stats=50hit_66haste_836sp_76sta_76int,gems=23sp,enchant=63sp,weapon=sword_1.80speed_142min_414max
off_hand=shadow_silk_spindle,stats=68haste_68crit_119sp_78sta_78int
ranged=corpse_impaling_spike,stats=38crit_30haste_58sp_44sta_44int,gems=10hit_12sp_5sp

56/0/15 DPS = 12744
scaling: sp=2.2477, haste=1.9839, crit=1.3724, spirit=1.2066

#!./simc 

warlock=meh
origin="http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=18823425"
level=80
race=undead
professions=tailoring=450/enchanting=450
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=9&tal=235000202102351025351033115100000000000000000000000000055000005
glyphs=life_tap/haunt/quick_decay
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=fish_feast
actions+=/spell_stone
actions+=/fel_armor
actions+=/summon_pet,felhunter
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/dark_pact,buff_refresh=1
actions+=/wild_magic_potion,bloodlust=1
actions+=/haunt,debuff=1
actions+=/corruption
actions+=/curse_of_agony
actions+=/unstable_affliction
actions+=/haunt
actions+=/drain_soul,health_percentage<=25,interrupt=1
actions+=/shadow_bolt
actions+=/dark_pact,mana_percentage<=20,buff_refresh=1,moving=1
actions+=/corruption,time_to_die>=20,moving=1
actions+=/curse_of_agony,time_to_die>=30,moving=1
actions+=/dark_pact
head=sanctified_dark_coven_hood,stats=300armor_114crit_106haste_186sp_139sta_139int,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=blood_queens_crimson_choker,stats=65crit_60haste_110sp_78sta_78int,gems=23sp
shoulders=sanctified_dark_coven_shoulderpads,stats=277armor_90crit_82haste_150sp_103sta_103int,gems=10hit_12sp_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
chest=sanctified_dark_coven_robe,stats=369armor_122crit_106haste_195sp_139sta_139int,gems=10haste_12sp_23sp_7sp,enchant=10str_10agi_10sta_10int_10spi
waist=crushing_coldwraith_belt,stats=208armor_74crit_90haste_140sp_103sta_103int,gems=23sp_23sp_23sp
legs=sanctified_dark_coven_leggings,stats=323armor_106hit_122crit_195sp_139sta_139int,gems=10spi_12sp_10haste_12sp_7haste_7sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=plague_scientists_boots,stats=254armor_74crit_90haste_140sp_103sta_103int,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=15sta
wrists=death_surgeons_sleeves,stats=162armor_60crit_110sp_78sta_78int_68spi,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=gunship_captains_mittens,stats=231armor_74hit_90haste_140sp_103sta_103int,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=28sp
finger1=ashen_band_of_endless_destruction,stats=51hit_64haste_101sp_73sta_73int,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=ring_of_rapid_ascent,stats=68crit_60haste_110sp_78sta_78int,gems=23sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=muradins_spyglass,stats=152crit,equip=onspellhit_20sp_10stack_10dur
trinket2=dislodged_foreign_object,stats=170haste,equip=onspellcast_121sp_10stack_10%_20dur_45cd_2tick
back=frostbinders_shredded_cape,stats=185armor_68crit_60haste_110sp_78sta_78int,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp,enchant=23haste
main_hand=rigormortis,stats=50hit_66haste_836sp_76sta_76int,gems=23sp,enchant=63sp,weapon=sword_1.80speed_142min_414max
off_hand=shadow_silk_spindle,stats=68crit_68haste_119sp_78sta_78int
ranged=corpseimpaling_spike,stats=38crit_30haste_58sp_44sta_44int,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp

Edit: added full profiles, fixed typos in ISL profile, updated numbers with Focus Magic buff, changed aff to use dark pact and take advantage of suppression.
Edit: changed ISL profile to use Glyph of Imp
Edit: moved some gems around in dark pact
Edit: fixed typos, moved points in Life Tap to Fel Concentration

Madlax · 12/30/09, 9:48 PM

Immolate is a slight increase at this point of gear - yes.

Get yourself some updated profiles though before continuing
Issue 211 - simulationcraft - Warlock T10 profiles - Project Hosting on Google Code
(Does not include phylateracy yet)

furcio · 12/30/09, 11:11 PM

56_0_15_DP
12721dps

sp=2.2078, crit=1.3248, haste=1.8544, spirit=1.1497

Profiler - Wowhead

Voraster · 12/31/09, 2:21 AM

Originally Posted by Madlax

Get yourself some updated profiles though before continuing
Issue 211 - simulationcraft - Warlock T10 profiles - Project Hosting on Google Code
(Does not include phylateracy yet)

Thanks for the links. I think I've improved my profiles to bring them more in line with yours, including using Dark Pact and using the Imp glyph. I was able to squeeze 70-80 more dps out of the profiles with some changes. Also, I didn't include the Ashen Verdict ring proc, because it seems to be causing a ~20 dps decrease in sims.

something2 · 12/31/09, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by Madlax

Immolate is a slight increase at this point of gear - yes.

Get yourself some updated profiles though before continuing
Issue 211 - simulationcraft - Warlock T10 profiles - Project Hosting on Google Code
(Does not include phylateracy yet)

I noticed that those profiles do not include any Demo specs, was wondering if anyone has done some math on T10 gear v T9 gear for Demo locks ... specifically if 2pT9 is still BiS?

dwsr · 01/01/10, 2:34 AM

Originally Posted by something2

I noticed that those profiles do not include any Demo specs, was wondering if anyone has done some math on T10 gear v T9 gear for Demo locks ... specifically if 2pT9 is still BiS?

I forget where I saw the post. but I believe someone calculated 2pT9 to be better than 2pT10 but worse than 4pT10.

Malorian · 01/01/10, 7:34 PM

Originally Posted by Voraster

Using Madlax's set as a jumping off point, I tried to improve upon it. Eventually spirit got so low on the 13/58 set that substituting Glyph of Immolate for Glyph of Life Tap was a substantial DPS gain. Please critique and improve.

I havent seen this mentioned before but if your going with a Dark Pact oriented spec, why pick up Imp Life Tap. Points are most likely better spent in Imp Drain Soul.

Killrogg · 01/02/10, 4:26 AM

Hi, I'm still new to this Forum, but like (hopefully) all Warlocks and Players, I'm eager to improve my class and of course my dps.
I know already that Simcraft is more like a max dps calculator but I'm curious just how realistic these DPS really are.
How close do you guys get to the calculated numbers and which difference is alright ?

Naforce · 01/02/10, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Killrogg

Hi, I'm still new to this Forum, but like (hopefully) all Warlocks and Players, I'm eager to improve my class and of course my dps.
I know already that Simcraft is more like a max dps calculator but I'm curious just how realistic these DPS really are.
How close do you guys get to the calculated numbers and which difference is alright ?

Tha numbers you see here on the site are reachable and breakable. They model a 5 minute long fight against a patchwerk-like boss, where all you do is stand and nuke. It also models you playing perfectly, not lifetapping too soon and keeping the rotation perfect. It also models a player with a certain amount of gear (usually the very best). In the case of actually reaching these numbers, you will need a fight where you can stand totally still and just nuke with all possible buffs except flame cap since I believe it isn't modeled, correct me if I'm wrong. In order to see what dps you could do on your character, simply download SimCraft yourself. In 3.1 I reached the aboiut the same amount of dps simcraft showed a few times, but that was when I had almost full BiS and good RnG. Try reaching withing 5-10% of the number SimCraft produces with your character on a stand-still-and-nuke fight. Good luck and have fun!

zacheryah · 01/03/10, 1:25 PM

More important then that is to understand what these numbers actually mean.

This is the average result of a dps simulation in raid circumstances that last 5 minutes, out of 5000 fights.

You can compare specs amongst each other to see what spec has better build up then the other, you can also compare dps classes.

But most fights involve movement, AoE'ing, switching dps, bursting dps, etc.
it uses the trinkets who are better for building up.
On use haste trinkets, can be a better solution in certain fights

If you are assigned to dps adds that dont live long, are to far from each other to seed, or dont come all at once, destruction will offcourse be a way better spec to choose(if they fix conflag and empowered imp)

Or like on anub'arak 25 heroic, where you'd take demonology for the powerfull aoe it had.

Use it as a guideline to see what spec has better sustained dps, but play the class to see where that applies and where it doesnt

jordancub · 01/03/10, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by furcio

56_0_15_DP
12721dps

sp=2.2078, crit=1.3248, haste=1.8544, spirit=1.1497

Profiler - Wowhead

Thats a really nice profile of affliction BIS. I was thinking with such little spirit to use the same profile but spec into dark pact instead. It's interesting that the simcqt seems to show lower dps @ 12685. Would you not think tapping less = more dps? At the moment with my current gear set I have ~ 600 spirit and its dropping very quick with alot of gear, I'm spec'd into dark pact and I get alot more mana off a tap than I do not spec'd into it. Might have to do a bit more testing once I get abit more gear.

furcio · 01/04/10, 12:13 AM

Simcraft uses Life Tap, try to copy-paste this simc. It will use Dark Pact instead.

#!./simc 

warlock=Bisaffi
origin="http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=20571145"
level=80
race=undead
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=9&tal=235020200102351025351033115100000000000000000000000000055000005
glyphs=life_tap/haunt/quick_decay
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=fish_feast
actions+=/spell_stone
actions+=/fel_armor
actions+=/summon_pet,felhunter
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/dark_pact,buff_refresh=1
actions+=/wild_magic_potion,bloodlust=1
actions+=/haunt,debuff=1
actions+=/corruption
actions+=/curse_of_agony
actions+=/unstable_affliction
actions+=/haunt
actions+=/drain_soul,health_percentage<=25,interrupt=1
actions+=/shadow_bolt
actions+=/dark_pact,mana_percentage<=20,buff_refresh=1,moving=1
actions+=/corruption,time_to_die>=20,moving=1
actions+=/curse_of_agony,time_to_die>=30,moving=1
actions+=/dark_pact
head=sanctified_dark_coven_hood,stats=300armor_114crit_106haste_186sp_139sta_139int,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=bone_sentinels_amulet,stats=60haste_110sp_78sta_78int_68spi,gems=23sp
shoulders=sanctified_dark_coven_shoulderpads,stats=277armor_90crit_82haste_150sp_103sta_103int,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
chest=sanctified_dark_coven_robe,stats=369armor_122crit_106haste_195sp_139sta_139int,gems=23sp_10haste_12sp_7sp,enchant=10str_10agi_10sta_10int_10spi
waist=crushing_coldwraith_belt,stats=208armor_74crit_90haste_140sp_103sta_103int,gems=39sp_39sp_39sp
legs=sanctified_dark_coven_leggings,stats=323armor_106hit_122crit_195sp_139sta_139int,gems=12sp_10spi_10haste_12sp_7sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=plague_scientists_boots,stats=254armor_74crit_90haste_140sp_103sta_103int,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=12crit_12hit
wrists=death_surgeons_sleeves,stats=162armor_60crit_110sp_78sta_78int_68spi,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=gunship_captains_mittens,stats=231armor_74hit_90haste_140sp_103sta_103int,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=28sp
finger1=ashen_band_of_endless_destruction,stats=51hit_64haste_101sp_73sta_73int,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp,equip=onspellhit_285sp_10%_10dur_45cd
finger2=ring_of_rapid_ascent,stats=68crit_60haste_110sp_78sta_78int,gems=23sp
trinket1=dislodged_foreign_object,stats=170haste,equip=onspellcast_121sp_10stack_10%_20dur_45cd_2tick
trinket2=phylactery_of_the_nameless_lich,stats=172crit,equip=ontick_1032sp_10%_20dur_90cd
back=frostbinders_shredded_cape,stats=185armor_68crit_60haste_110sp_78sta_78int,gems=10hit_12sp,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
main_hand=rigormortis,stats=50hit_66haste_836sp_76sta_76int,gems=23sp,enchant=63sp,weapon=sword_1.80speed_142min_414max
off_hand=shadow_silk_spindle,stats=68crit_68haste_119sp_78sta_78int
ranged=corpseimpaling_spike,stats=38crit_30haste_58sp_44sta_44int,gems=10haste_12sp
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1422
# gear_intellect=1422
# gear_spirit=187
# gear_spell_power=3378
# gear_hit_rating=303
# gear_crit_rating=1138
# gear_haste_rating=1192
# gear_armor=2309
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# tier10_2pc_caster=1
# tier10_4pc_caster=1
# back=frostbinders_shredded_cape,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
# main_hand=rigormortis,weapon=sword_1.80speed_142min_414max

jordancub · 01/04/10, 1:04 AM

Uhh, sorry, I forgot to mention I did change the life tap's to dark pact's on that profile and thats how I came up with 12685. Now the question, is how does LT yield more DPS then DP. You would think having to LT less and ACTUALLY getting more mana per LT you would increase the dps. Is there somthing missing?

Madlax · 01/04/10, 6:44 AM

I´m having a hard time to verify your numbers there.
Furcios imported profile(lacking gem bonuses and the Ashen ring should be on 60sec CD as per Optimal Sets / Item Discussion)
comes out lower than mine, no matter how I test it.

Also, I don't understand why you would be using the gloves as off piece.
Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft
The legs(Plaguebringer's Stained Pants - Items - Sigrie) actually have 3 sockets - wowhead misses one it seems.
And with socket equality it comes down to 32crit vs 26 haste and 6 hit +/- a few SP from socket bonuses that would need detailed evaluation.

Jenren22 · 01/04/10, 6:46 AM

Just a quick question about simcraft, should we pay more attention to the 'Patchwerk' style of fight or the 'Helter Skelter'? I try to get stat weights from both and compare gear for both sets, but often i'm a little sceptical about how simcraft simulates a 'Helter Skelter' fight when each and every fight is different.

furcio · 01/04/10, 7:13 AM

#Jordaclub
My resoults were from 3+ days ago when we had simcraft 330.6. With newest one 330.7 I get same number as you. They fixed something it seems. According to my profile it's Dark Pact that was more powerfull than Life Tap, but haven't tested it with 0.7 yet, just downloaded it.

#Madlax
If it misses one socket then you are right. Plague legs would win.

furcio · 01/04/10, 8:36 AM

delete please, double post

Rhaenys · 01/04/10, 9:05 AM

Was looking at the detailed info for 55/0/16 listed in the first post, and the profiler link lists CoA, Haunt, and LT as the glyphs of choice, while a bit farther down it lists Haunt, LT, and quick decay.

Profiler - Wowhead

Kinda confusing. Is it double dipping? (I'm still brand new to simcraft so not 100% sure how things work yet)

Thanks!

krilz · 01/04/10, 9:38 AM

Originally Posted by Jenren22

Just a quick question about simcraft, should we pay more attention to the 'Patchwerk' style of fight or the 'Helter Skelter'? I try to get stat weights from both and compare gear for both sets, but often i'm a little sceptical about how simcraft simulates a 'Helter Skelter' fight when each and every fight is different.

It's really hard to tell at this point considering that not all bosses are available yet in Icecrown (unless someone here has raided every boss on the PTR) but considering the first 4 bosses that are available; I'd say it suits the Patchwerk-style a whole lot better since you're really not moving around much (at least I don't).

Calidus · 01/04/10, 9:48 AM

Originally Posted by Rhaenys

Was looking at the detailed info for 55/0/16 listed in the first post, and the profiler link lists CoA, Haunt, and LT as the glyphs of choice, while a bit farther down it lists Haunt, LT, and quick decay.

Profiler - Wowhead

Kinda confusing. Is it double dipping? (I'm still brand new to simcraft so not 100% sure how things work yet)

Thanks!

The profile was created 10.08.09 which i most likely before wowhead added a glyph of quick decay to their database. I guess that the profile was just never updated. Now as for "double dipping" with glyphs, I believe that simcraft will implements those glyphs that are in the code, the profiles are used the generate the code but that code can be overrided/overwritten. If you wanted to double check that it is not double dipping, you could copy the profile lsited and edit the Glyph of CoA to Quick decay then run simcraft and compare the results.

Diev · 01/04/10, 12:44 PM

Warlock_T9_00_56_15 Sta=0.2143 Int=0.5600 Spi=1.1149 SP=1.5322 Hit=3.0691 Crit=1.0610 Haste=1.5983

If haste>SP, what are the best gems? Pure SP for Demonic Pact, pure haste, or SP/Haste?

angaroth · 01/04/10, 12:53 PM

Those scale numbers are for that profile. For your gear they will be (possibly dramatically) different. That being said I would, for Demo, try and get as much SP as you can without having so little haste that the game isn't fun.

dottz · 01/06/10, 12:05 PM

Scoured the forums and couldn't find an answer so resorting to posting it.

Regarding rhadatip and it's scaling values, i have ran myself through simcraft to find the stats scaling values however am not sure what values to put on the 2pct9 and 2pct10 to use rhadatip accurately.

Thanks in advance.