Just a question of gear to get ready for the next patch. Obviously 4pt7 is much more useful as it is already incorporated into the design of the rotation but I am just curious as to what people would be using for non-tier pieces in order to get hit cap and the gems to go along with it.
Also, it might be useful to add a bit on trinkets.
The OP has links to optimal gear sets listed for each of the specs.
First, see the to do's at the bottom of the post, I still need to make my aff gear list (actually I'll do that once I post this)
Secondly, Yes, we have reached the conclusion that posting just one potential high dps spec is a bad Idea, hence me adding aff all ready (thanks to our fellow warlock authors) as well as I will be adding a 3/13/55 spec to that list as well.
But you can't say
X spec is better than Y spec only if you can manage [insert magic rotation]
Lets be honest, managing a DS execute rotation is actually much harder (currently in 3.0.9) then the 1:1 weave. In 3.1 they are about equal. If you have time to get off 1 DS tick you should have just as much time to get off a SF/incin combo.
The DS execute is much easier to maintain and do than a decimation rotation. The reason being is the specific range requirement of decimation. In ulduar, very few bosses (if any) will be patchwerk-like, where you can just stand in one spot and neither you or the boss moves. The issue with decimation is you generally have to be at max range, so when you or the boss moves, you have to constantly work to be at max range to even make it work. Meanwhile, DS can be used at 1 yard or 30 yards. Realistically, it should not be assumed in any way that one will be able to maintain much of a decimation weaving rotation in the majority of ulduar fights.
I see that you stated that master conjurer "Master Conjuror This is a very nice talent, it massively increases our haste. (300% increase over the standard 65 haste)" While it also increases your crit by a superior amount, are we narrowing it down to using spellstones over firestones for 0-40-31. I would think alot would be determined by gear and stats in order to make this assumption more clear, instead of just choosing one over the other immediately.
The DS execute is much easier to maintain and do than a decimation rotation. The reason being is the specific range requirement of decimation. In ulduar, very few bosses (if any) will be patchwerk-like, where you can just stand in one spot and neither you or the boss moves. The issue with decimation is you generally have to be at max range, so when you or the boss moves, you have to constantly work to be at max range to even make it work. Meanwhile, DS can be used at 1 yard or 30 yards. Realistically, it should not be assumed in any way that one will be able to maintain much of a decimation weaving rotation in the majority of ulduar fights.
Being forced to move before the first tick of DS goes off will be a severe dps hit for the affliction spec. There have been suggestions to build a random movement component into simulationcraft to mimic this kind of situation but arguing over whether DS or weaving is going to be harder in movement based and movement constrained fights, is not particularly productive when they both have issues that will vary from fight to fight and strategy to strategy.
I checked the scale factors for the DP-build and compared it with the very similar 3/52/16. According to the simcraft thread we get the following values for the later specc:
Since the only real difference is 3% hit (simcraft uses a shamans 280 SP as Spellpower-buff) how can the values be so different? I would personally expect them to be pretty much the same, maybe a slight higher value for SP with the DP build since it also buffs yourself but here we see a loss of 10% in stat-value all over. What am I missing?
And also a note on DP uptime, it was a long time ago I read statistics so correct me if Im wrong.
Uptime should be 1-(1-x)^y
where x is your pets critchance and y is the number of hits the pets do on average during a 12 second period.
Some other thread here has set y to 10, but cant find it and Im not sure which buffs it takes account for but I would assume it is with "melee-haste" buffs. This also proves whats written somewhere else, but couldnt find it in this thread, that crit doesnt affect uptime that much. Just putting in a few values gave somewhere around +0.5% uptime per 1% petcrit in the 20-30% crit area.
The link under "5.) Replenishment" says 0-41-30 but leads to a 0-13-58 spec which I assume is the correct one.
The Destuction build you link to has two talent points to spare. Can they just be seen as fillers? If so, I suppose the best places to put them would be Shadowfury [although not useful at all on a Patchwerk fight, it can be very useful on fights like Gluth or Maexxna, i.e. fights where adds must be controlled, and what better way to do this than an instant AoE Stun] and Fel Domination [you spent all those points into improving your Imp, so it is crucial that he is out at all times.]
Being forced to move before the first tick of DS goes off will be a severe dps hit for the affliction spec. There have been suggestions to build a random movement component into simulationcraft to mimic this kind of situation but arguing over whether DS or weaving is going to be harder in movement based and movement constrained fights, is not particularly productive when they both have issues that will vary from fight to fight and strategy to strategy.
A 1:1 weave will be slightly harder to perform under movement, the combined based cast time of incinerate and a decimation soul fire is 3.85 seconds compared to 3 seconds of a drain soul tick. On the other hand, affliction only has one instant cast (not counting corruption), where 0/40/31 has three instant casts.
This pvp oriented profession brings a good hand enchant: Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket Which yields 56.67 average haste if you were to use it every min. Which is 58.367 dps subtract the standard 37 dps of the 28 spellpower gloves and you get +20.8 dps upgrade
The Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket should actually read Hyperspeed Accelerators (that is what you linked and does provide haste).
Great write up Suplicium, thanks for your hard work.
Originally Posted by supplicium
[*]Pyroclasm This old talent has been refurbished to provide a nice dps boost on Conflag crits.P
One other edit, the Pyroclasm talent from the Deep Destro build references the new 3.1 talent but is pointing at the 3.09 talent description. It should be Pyroclasm - Spell - World of Warcraft instead.
Comments on your destro section: the initial sequence, at least with my testing, won't work as Immolate needs some time between first application and triggering of Conflag, so the sequence would look like LT, CoD, Immolate, Incinerate, Conflag, CB, etc. I'm not sure untalented, unglyphed CoA is worth the GCD, even below 90s to die. Simcraft currently does not include it.
Since we don't know the frequency of the world drop books for the new glyphs, and we might not have access to them in the first raid lock out, perhaps some discussion about the most useful current glyphs might be helpful. We can include the Glyph of Incinerate, since this will be directly replacing the Glyph of Banish. If there are no Haunt or Life Tap glyphs immediately available, Unstable Affliction, Corruption, and CoA appear to be the best for Affliction, and Conflag, Immolate, and Incinerate or possibly Imp for destro.
One thing i would like to see is that once all things are considered, how do these specs change once we have to lose our 4p T7 bonus? Is it worth losing it? At what point is it worth losing it? If we don't use 4p t7 is the Glyph of Lifetap still the highest DPS glyph?
I'm really interested in this as well. I have the 4p T7 bonus but BiS items are dropping and I'm not sure if it's worth swapping out pieces such as the pants for the Maly pants. So is the Glyph of Life Tap still the best glyph if we lost the 4p T7 bonus?
First let me say thanks for all of you correcting my errors, I've been writing a lot of this on Autorun while leveling an alt with a bunch of friends and as such have made a few mistakes.
that being said, minor corrections (like bad links or typos) are best PM'd to me.
Originally Posted by duhwhat
Comments on your destro section: the initial sequence, at least with my testing, won't work as Immolate needs some time between first application and triggering of Conflag, so the sequence would look like LT, CoD, Immolate, Incinerate, Conflag, CB, etc. I'm not sure untalented, unglyphed CoA is worth the GCD, even below 90s to die. Simcraft currently does not include it.
Since we don't know the frequency of the world drop books for the new glyphs, and we might not have access to them in the first raid lock out, perhaps some discussion about the most useful current glyphs might be helpful. We can include the Glyph of Incinerate, since this will be directly replacing the Glyph of Banish. If there are no Haunt or Life Tap glyphs immediately available, Unstable Affliction, Corruption, and CoA appear to be the best for Affliction, and Conflag, Immolate, and Incinerate or possibly Imp for destro.
I'm not sure how much ptr time you've had but from my expereince up to about ~200ms conflag has been able to be cast directly after immolate is cast. I believe they changed a large part of the coding with this spell in 3.1 and how the system treats it. Not sur what they did, but it's 100% better than it is live. That being said if you DO experience trouble you may want to toss in a corruption or life tap in between.
Also if we can't get the book Glyph of Incinerate is better for destro, I have to look at some simcraft data and figure out what's 4th place for affliction/deep demo.
Originally Posted by Valilock
I'm really interested in this as well. I have the 4p T7 bonus but BiS items are dropping and I'm not sure if it's worth swapping out pieces such as the pants for the Maly pants. So is the Glyph of Life Tap still the best glyph if we lost the 4p T7 bonus?
Heres the deal, as it reads in the first posts with the gear sets you want to do the following.
If you HAVE the pants from mally, than use head,chest,gloves,shoulders if you don't try using head, pants, shoulder gloves and robes from either 10man mally or the putrid vestments.
If you don't have glyph of life tape then don;t bother with the 4pc bonus until you do. Gear for haste and the 2pc bonus. I'd recomend something along the lines of only the shoulders/gloves and than the rest can be what ever you have laying around.
I will add this to the first post later today. I've fixed the other minor errors, once again thank all you hawk eye'd readers, spelling and grammar is something I have issues spotting quickly do to an odd disorder I can get into some where else, but as such All your help makes me look less dumb!
The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.
I have a question in regards to when Ulduar is released. Most of these Sims take the new Glyphs far as DPS and where each spec stands. Seeing as the new glyphs are world drops, the likelihood anybody will have all of them with a week or three is pretty slim especially since even if a Scribe finds a book, they still deal with another RNG factor of the book giving a completely random glyph which may or may not include Lifetap or Haunt out of 50 Random World Drops.
That being said, is there a spec which will be better WITHOUT the new glyphs when raiding starts up again and assuming you're in BiS from pre-3.1? Haven't seen anybody ask or comment about this.
With the loss of the Unholy Aura's raid-wide run speed in 3.1, would it make more sense to use a meta with runspeed or swap out Icewalker for Tuskarr's (assuming the loss of hit can be compensated for so you are still at the cap)?
With the loss of the Unholy Aura's raid-wide run speed in 3.1, would it make more sense to use a meta with runspeed or swap out Icewalker for Tuskarr's (assuming the loss of hit can be compensated for so you are still at the cap)?
If you're going to spec affliction, use the 25 SP +runspeed meta. If you're going any other spec, then use Tuskarr's Vitality.
Good work so far
In your Engineering section you forgot to mention the 3.1 engineering (19?)spellpower cloak-enchant (and maybe the 18 crit boots-enchant which should be better than 18 spirit for some specs if you are hitcapped without icewalker) , which should be an additional dps-increase together with the glove-enchant.
It will likely still be lower than the other professions by some amount but a little bit closer to them and has the additional utility (slowfall/mini-sprint) and use-able burst (glove-enchant) for "Full DPS now!"-moments that the other professions don't have.
I have a question in regards to when Ulduar is released. Most of these Sims take the new Glyphs far as DPS and where each spec stands. Seeing as the new glyphs are world drops, the likelihood anybody will have all of them with a week or three is pretty slim especially since even if a Scribe finds a book, they still deal with another RNG factor of the book giving a completely random glyph which may or may not include Lifetap or Haunt out of 50 Random World Drops.
That being said, is there a spec which will be better WITHOUT the new glyphs when raiding starts up again and assuming you're in BiS from pre-3.1? Haven't seen anybody ask or comment about this.
Aff will miss on new Haunt glyph. Lack of LT glyph should be equal for all (providing there is an alternative), maybe abit more painful to DP builds. Otherwise all glyphs are already there.
Edit: That being said, it might be a good idea to determine which glyphs are best as a temp replacement for LT glyph...
In the OP, the spec is 2/2 master summoner. I have always felt that was something of a filler talent. With 1/2 master summoner, fel domination and a fair amount of haste, you can easily get the summon time of your pet pretty low, and you only need that super-speed if your guy dies in combat with a raid boss. The new fel synergy seems to help a lot with that - is it really worth giving up 1/1 mana feed in order to get a faster pet every so often? With mana feed, your imp (or FG in the FG spec) would probably never run OOM, which happens to me a fair amount in 3.0.9 with the imp in a deep destro build (no mana feed there).
I'm also curious about the 3/3 molten core, 2/5 demonic tactics decision. I'll have to run some simcraft on it, but I was under the impression that 2/3 MC was probably enough. Any good models of MC uptime with 2/3 MC vs 3/3 MC been done yet? Don't want to re-invent any wheels.
The only spec in actual need of a placeholder is Aff because of Siphon Glyph only affecting the Healing output with 3.1 and funny enough Haunt and LT are both books, while the other specs can just go with what they were using before.
04/12/09, 6:18 PM
