The 3.2 Discussion Thread - Page 3

Frailty99 · 07/27/09, 1:57 AM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

CoA is needed for MC procs in a 0/41/30 spec. It's both, not needed and not very useful for demonic pact spec. Reason being that you're already nuking with Shadow Bolt (=MC procs), and you're not doing that much fire damage anyway since you're not nuking with incinerate (as FG/ES does).

As for your talent spec:
Aftermath is a bad talent. Its not worth taking as Demo.
Let the destruction lock pick up improved healthstones, the demo lock should get Demonic Embrace. Remember that you (slightly) scale with stamina as a demo lock.
Also, pick up 3/3 Improved Demonic Tactics. Makes for much better demonic pact uptime.

So i can count on decent uptime on MC without using CoA in a pact build with one point in MC? This was my original thought, but was told recently CoA is a must. Drawing from my own logic and your comments im gonna roll with CoD :P

Healthstones are a funny issue, while i 100% agree i should be maxing embrace, the other locks sometimes do not show and people start freaking out about 4200 health stones lol

As for aftermath .... thats a tricky one for me. I know its DPCT is greater than shadowbolt unglyphed and without set bonuses, i guess its just me thinking the cumulative effects of all 3 of those warranted the points in it, im gonna have to look at this one again.

Thanks for the reply, ill be messing around on the PTR fine tuning for 3.2 ...... at least the mages wont hate me anymore! LOL

Warlocomotif · 07/27/09, 2:35 AM

Molten Core increases your fire damage by 10%, your fire damage will extremely rarely be more than 35% (it'll only really be 35% if you're aoe-ing, and when you're aoeing you wouldnt be casting dots anyway- though I guess you could cast SoC to proc MC) So the increase to your damage when MC is up is roughly 3.5%.

In your normal rotation you have corruption ticking every 3 seconds, and with haste you'll cast a shadowbolt roughly every 2 seconds. Meaning that per 15 seconds you'll get 5 shadow dot ticks and 7.5 shadow bolts. The chance for for molten core to be up at any point is 100% - the chance for it to not have procced in the past 15s, or 1-(0.95^(5+7.5))=47% uptime. If you were to add Curse of agony that would become:

1-(0.95^(5+7.5+7.5))=64%

So you gain 17% uptime to a buff that increases (at best) 35% of your damage by 10%. Which totals at a 0.6% damage increase. Lets say you're doing 7k dps, thats 42k damage in a minute. The gain from CoA over 1 minute time through molten core would be 249.9 damage. Curse of DOom however would do a lot more damage by itself to make up for 2 coa's + the tiny 249 damage.

Curse of Doom > CoA by far.

ZiaSK · 08/03/09, 3:23 PM

I was thinking about the new Empowered Imp change and if it would be possible to make use of it somehow in PvP by, say, /petattack and CCing/LoSing until you get the buff, then lining up a Chaos Bolt crit + Conflag combo. But then I started thinking about the Resilience change and how it relates to 100% crit chance.

As I type this, I'm assuming that the crit chance reduction will be taken off of 100% crit chance. So if someone has -10% to incoming crit chance, then an Empowered Imp spell will be at 90% crit chance and so forth (I'm also assuming that crit chance will not go over 100%).

Or do 100% crit buffs override resilience? This all might be irrelevant, though, as the imp probably will not get any crits at all against highly pvp geared opponents.

Darkmantle · 08/03/09, 10:38 PM

Does the empowered imp boost get consumed on cast or on hit?

If it does get consumed on hit, does that mean we can essentially do a shatter by getting 2 spells in the air before the buff is consumed? I'm thinking mainly of CB+ conflag being cast at almost the same time and which one benefits from empowered imp.

Taste · 08/04/09, 2:53 AM

Originally Posted by ZiaSK

I was thinking about the new Empowered Imp change and if it would be possible to make use of it somehow in PvP by, say, /petattack and CCing/LoSing until you get the buff, then lining up a Chaos Bolt crit + Conflag combo. But then I started thinking about the Resilience change and how it relates to 100% crit chance.

As I type this, I'm assuming that the crit chance reduction will be taken off of 100% crit chance. So if someone has -10% to incoming crit chance, then an Empowered Imp spell will be at 90% crit chance and so forth (I'm also assuming that crit chance will not go over 100%).

Or do 100% crit buffs override resilience? This all might be irrelevant, though, as the imp probably will not get any crits at all against highly pvp geared opponents.

Crit chance will get over 100%, try take a look at a feral druid' crit chance when he gets the spore buff from Loatheb. it will go above 100%, our had 117% if i remember correct.

Darkmantle · 08/04/09, 4:53 AM

Originally Posted by Taste

Crit chance will get over 100%, try take a look at a feral druid' crit chance when he gets the spore buff from Loatheb. it will go above 100%, our had 117% if i remember correct.

What is displayed on a tooltip isn't necessarily what is happening in the actual game code. It should be fairly simple to test with enough crit rating to have 10% crit, versus a character with resilience sufficient to decrease crit chance by 9%. If they ever don't get crit, we know that crit caps at a 100% then resilience takes away.

Profa · 08/04/09, 4:56 AM

My first post here is the question/idea about how to change talents according to the change being made to Life Tap glyph. As it looks like right now, LT glyph increase in damage for all currently available official builds.
Since destro Warlocks have problems with aggro on some encounters, I found Destructive Reach talent pretty important, but till 3.2 I had only one point in this and since I will be using LT anyway, I would change ISL to only 1 point (putting the one to DR) making it 50% effective.
The question is if its worth it?! It would be also nice removing both points from ISL so that raid wont recieve replenishment, but allowing you to put all those 4 more talents into survival talents like molten skin or soul link.
So more survivability or mana regen for raid and you and how much mana regen? Thats the question for discussion.

Sorry about my English, I am not native speaker so I hope you get what I meant.

half ISL build (replenish): http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...&version=10192

survival: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...&version=10192

Orgath · 08/04/09, 5:09 AM

Originally Posted by Darkmantle

Does the empowered imp boost get consumed on cast or on hit?

It is consumed on cast.

ultrajustin · 08/04/09, 6:02 AM

Originally Posted by dwsr

3% less hit potentially means 3% more crit/haste, or possibly even more spell power.

Fixed version:

78.69 points is 3% hit.

You can replace about 78points of itemization with crit/haste if you take suppression.

Orgath · 08/04/09, 6:21 AM

Originally Posted by ultrajustin

Basic WoW Math

Please consider the context of your quotes.
The statement in question was to drop or to not drop the Supression Talent.
The correct answer to that is:
Yes, if you gain more utility through the optional Talents picked.
For Destro ISL provides more DPS than you loose by gearinng for 3% more hit.

renaendel · 08/04/09, 1:20 PM

SampleOutputT8 - simulationcraft - Project Hosting on Google Code

I have noticed that the pawn values listed in the 3.2 T8 warlock specs do not include int for certain specs. Specifically 03-13-55. This seems unreasonable as int has a ranking of 0.85 for the 00-03-58 spec. Was this an oversight or can someone explain why int would not be valued at all in 03-13-55?

note* I do understand that 00-13-58 is technically the higher dps spec, but in the quest for more hit gear and highly mobile fights the 03-13-55 has proven useful. (please comment on the simcraft pawn value question, not on the validity of this note

)

prorsus · 08/04/09, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by renaendel

SampleOutputT8 - simulationcraft - Project Hosting on Google Code This seems unreasonable as int has a ranking of 0.85 for the 00-03-58 spec.

That is probably due to ISL scaling with INT.

Dazion · 08/04/09, 4:54 PM

Im curious as to wether Affliction will pull slightly ahead of Destro due to changes to both Immolate and Incinerate. Taking into account that Glyph of Life Tap was buffed, it seems this would now also be the most optimal glyph for any spec. Any thoughts on the subject?

ruthlessmind · 08/05/09, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by renaendel

SampleOutputT8 - simulationcraft - Project Hosting on Google Code

I have noticed that the pawn values listed in the 3.2 T8 warlock specs do not include int for certain specs. Specifically 03-13-55. This seems unreasonable as int has a ranking of 0.85 for the 00-03-58 spec. Was this an oversight or can someone explain why int would not be valued at all in 03-13-55?

note* I do understand that 00-13-58 is technically the higher dps spec, but in the quest for more hit gear and highly mobile fights the 03-13-55 has proven useful. (please comment on the simcraft pawn value question, not on the validity of this note

)

Due to the mana returns gained from ISL and not using the glyph of life tap for the 00-13-58 spec there is no benefit to using life tap other then to keep from going OOM. Because of this you do not want to cast it unless you need the mana. More int=more mana which allows you to cast longer before you run out of mana.

03-13-55 spec does not have the mana return from ISL causing you to go OOM much sooner. Because of this it includes the glyph of life tap and casting it much more often and regular for both the mana and the bonus spell power. With constant life taps you are gaining mana back already and the value of int becomes null.

Bloch · 08/05/09, 10:38 AM

This is the build I am currently using in 3.2. From my PTR experience, I find it to be the highest DPS build provided that (1) you have another viable source of replenishment in your raid and (2) your total mana consumption per second is around ~125 (this is the figure required to lifetap only once per 40 seconds with replenishment active) and while inside the five second rule.

http://http://talent.mmo-champion.co...&version=10192

I find that soul leech is a great tool for PvE survivablity (I always have it active), and the damage my imp does absorb via SL is easily healed by my Fel Synergy (at 5k DPS, you are healing your pet for 750 hps, which, if insufficient, would mean that you personally are taking more than 3750 DPS for an extended period of time which seems unlikely).

The lingering concern I'm having is the 3/3 in supression. While warlock T9 is not hit-heavy (5 pc total provides 124 hit: 72 from Chest and 52 from Gloves at iLvl 232 (141 at iLvl 245)), a significant amount of the loot listed for CC seems to be hit-heavy. I currently run with ~265 hit*, but with the new gear I am able to easily reach the ~340 mark required for a suppression-less build. The question I have been wrestling with is: are there any talents that are accessible to a destro warlock that would be more beneficial in terms of DPS?

I have considered placing an additional point into Destructive Reach, Soul Leech, and Shadowfury. Obviously Soul Leech brings with it greater survivability and eases the strain on healers, so it is viable. Shadowfury seems very situational to me, and I'm not sure if I'd get a decent value for it. Destructive Reach looks like a nice talent, but with the SS CD being reduced to 3 minutes, it seems superfluous (the additional range is negated by the fact that you have to run in and cast CoD every minute anyway). Any thoughts on this build or these modifications?

*265 hit = 10% additional chance to hit. I have assumed the following raid buffs/talents: +1% Heroic Presence, +3% suppression, +3% E&M/Misery.