mjball

One area of Optigear that seems to be particularly lacking right now is the tier set bonuses. Do we have any reasonable estimate for the DPS value of T8 and T9 bonuses? I really haven't seen any yet. I imagine this is the sort of thing that can be calculated using Simcraft. However, the problem with considering each bonus as a flat DPS increase is that they're really not. Because they're basically percentage based, the more damage you do, the more DPS the bonus is worth. Also, the T9 2-piece bonus is even more tricky. What are the chances of seeing a more intelligent estimation of the value of each bonus?
I'm thinking that one way it could be gone is to evaluate gear sets that include tier pieces (2, 3, 4, or 5 of them) while ignoring the bonus. Then, to get a final estimate, look at the resultant stats (i.e. crit %, haste %, etc.) and apply some reasonable estimate for each bonus that actually takes into account the stats of the entire gear set and isn't just a flat value. Thoughts?

 

Nevinyrral

Yeah it's a good point about the bonuses since the pet crit of 10% is good which i read somewhere ends up being like 8-9% crit for the lock due no 100% uptime. I think this ends up being ~200crit for 8% crit. So giving the state of crit with .8 factor for destro locks I'd say the 2piece gives a total of ~158.4 for the tier 9 2 piece. I'm not sure what the overall is for 4 piece since it is a little more involved since it's based on increase damage of dots. Any thoughts?

 

Nartas

45.91 crit rating per 1%

45.91 x 8 (8% crit)= 367.28

367.28 x .82 (crit rating scaling for 00/13/58)= 301.17 dps


Have we confirmed however that haste is going to suck that much and drop that much in scaling? .4 dps roughly per point down from previous numbers.

 

Warlocomotif

This is stuff that should go to the Simcraft thread. Also: No you won't get anywhere near 8% personal crit out of the 2 piece bonus. Closer to 4%.

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.

 

Orgath

Edit: sorry, loco is right, this is the wrong thread.

for a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Simon & Garfunkel

 

kev_1270

I didn't see this mentioned in a prior post:

Totally Triumphant Kel'thuzad Set (258)

and

Triumphant Kel'Thuzad Set (245)

Do not appear to have separate listings. I have the Triumphant set listed twice and bothe are level 258... this is the same for all the pieces of the set. Not sure about the Gul'dan Set.

 

mjball

I can confirm this problem. It exists with the Gul'dan set as well. OptiGear definitely doesn't handle the new ambiguous/non-unique item names correctly. I'm curious to know why Blizzard decided to give identical names to distinct items (such as the better two levels of Tier gear), and simultaneously giving identical items different names (Alliance vs. Horde). Even less consistent to me is the choice to give the ilvl 232 tier gear different names from the ilvl245 and 258 pieces.

 

◊ Melbuframa

This is because Wowhead still does not have all the items it its database. It would be great if OG had the option to pull from either the armory or MMOs item database.

 

Kryptik

I had asked the same question in the Simcraft post and the for the most part the answer is yes. Haste was valued so much higher when Ulduar was just starting because most gear was crit-heavy, and since then we have found a lot of gear with haste. Thus this caused Haste to become less valuable and lose some of its scaling weight. That and some bug fixes went in that changed it. (What the Simcraft poster told me)

 

Izichial

That's not the sole reason, Melbufrahma. I can't find a single 3.2 trinket, for example, and most of them (all but the heroic drops for obvious reasons) are in Wowhead's database.

[08:16:24] [W From] [72:Jukaj]: :P ??
[08:18:04] [W To] [72:Jukaj]: May I ask you, what is your opinion on narwhals?
[08:18:05] Jukaj is ignoring you.

 

Nevinyrral

As for not everything being in the program. Wowhead is updated all the time as people upload stuff to them. Getting everything possible to put into the list would take adding new stuff every time something new is coming out. It is to be expected that a lot of crap will be missing until loot lists are finalized. Just wait because currently for the BIS weapon I am getting the furious gladiator one and the next best is from 25 ToC normal mode so this might change when Grand Crusader comes out.

I noticed that the weights for warlocks in optigear are not the same as the ones given in the simcraft. Forgive me I am at work so I cannot get the optigear program up and running but I noticed it last night. So that is something to look into for future updates or for those trying to figure out best in slot gear.

Oh and idea for the ambiguous names of the tier nines. For the sake of the programing I personally would just leave otu either the horde or the alliance set to help eliminate programming uses unless you plan to make a button to select between horde only and alliance only sets and subsequent other pieces. I hope most people would know to look up for equivalent stuff if one piece says alliance only.

 

mjball

@Nevin and Izi: that's not how OptiGear works right now. For one, Wowhead does have most, if not all, of the 3.2 items. The data that Wowhead gathers from users is statistics, like drop rate. If you bothered to actually run OG, you'd see that it has the ability to get gear from Wowhead. At this point, everything slot but trinkets is accounted for (to the best of my knowledge).
Further, OptiGear handles trinkets completely separately. They have to be manually entered into the trinkets.xml file, since OG doesn't contain any logic to approximate the DPS or spellpower equivalent on trinkets that have on-use or proc effects. Instead OG just uses a pre-determined estimate. It does *not* pull trinket data from Wowhead.
Think before you speak (...or type). Try educating yourself before answering, and you might just say something that's actually correct.

 

ruthlessmind

That is something that you can manually update yourself. The numbers that are posted from simcraft are based on BiS gear from all possible sources. Also as simcraft is updated then scaling factors can change and if nothing is wrong with OG then it is much easier to update yourself then expect an update to the program.

To get the most accurate use of this program I would recommend you do so anyway. If you are not clearing hardmode content for example then all possible gear is not available to you. The best thing would be to run simcraft yourself to get scaling factors for your current gear and then update OG with those numbers and filter out the gear that is currently not available to you.

 

Kryptik

I ran into a problem tonight while trying to decide what piece I wanted to pick up first out of the 245 T9 pieces. So in theory I would take each piece and add it into Optigear one at a time to see which one would give the highest stat weight with my current gear. Only I found something a little weird.

As I was picking pieces I noticed two Triumph for each (I am assuming one for 245 and one for 258, neither of which are noted so I can't tell which one is which when putting them in). When I would choose one nothing would change so when I chose both then it added "one" of them in and I don't know which.

Also if I exclude all possible shoulders but one or the other of the Triumph pieces, Optigear choose neither of them, but once I choose both of them it looks like it picks the "better" one and goes with that.

Did anyone else run into this problem at all? Sorry if this sounds confusing but I know SOMEone gets what I'm talking about lol.

 

Yvgenie

Locate the file gearlist.xml in the OptiGear directory and open it with your text editor (e.g. notepad).
Search for your T9 peace in the file and delete the one you don't want.

 

Kryptik

But you see then I run into the problem where, if I don't have both selected while choosing which T9 piece to pick up in Optigear, it won't work.

 

Yvgenie

If you've deleted the T9 peace from the file, there can be only one to choose left.
Have you really deleted it from the file?

 

Nartas

So looking over the gear and not being able to acually put it into optigear, just by eyeballing and doing some napkin math, is the genearl consensus to go 4 piece plus hit chest [Skyweaver Robes] where you only have to wear hit boots offset or four piece plus gloves [Gloves of the Lifeless Touch] in which case you'd have to wear hit boots and belt as well.

 

happyraul

My own calculations suggest the optimal gear set is comprised of four piece T9 (gloves are off set - Pharos Gloves).

Slots with hit: Main Hand, Ranged, Back, Chest, Waist, plus 12 hit from boot enchant brings you to 293 hit with known gear.

For 14%, add in the T9 gloves and swap one Reckless Ametrine for a Veiled Ametrine, bringing you to 371 hit with known gear.

My calculation method was a side by side listing, per slot, of two items; On the left the best known item in that slot with no hit (best meaning highest score given stat weights for int, spirit, SP, haste, crit), and on the right the best known item with hit. Dividing the difference in score between left and right by the number of hit rating the item on the right has provides the cost (in item score) per point of hit, allowing you to rank the slots.

A couple of examples, using my stat weights:

Back - Drape of the Refreshing Winds (286.23) - Shroud of Displacement (277.80, 49 hit) = 0.17 points/hit

Compare that to the Off Hand slot:

Off Hand - Mystifying Charm (265.73) - Lightbane Focus (221.73, 37 hit) = 1.19 points/hit

Once you have the slots ordered by the derived value, in ascending order, just start at the top of the list and add up the hit ratings until you reach the desired total.

I think Optigear would arrive at the same gear set, but currently the iLevel 258 Barb of Tarasque is not in its item database, so a slightly different set of gear is generated.

 

Kryptik

I found something interesting while looking at the stats in the Trinket file. Scale of Fates had 18 Spirit added into its calculation. I manually edited it out and I'm glad I did because it decided Dying Curse was more DPS with my current gear.

 

Nevinyrral

Wowhead has no listings for 25 man Heroic ToC spell weapons. Which was my point to we don't know until it is all out. Barb of Taraque (i258) is one in particularly I noticed not in there as I was being told to use dying curse to get my hit rating with my stat weights and this particular item has 51 hit as opposed to the relentless mageblade. Not to mention Suffering's End, Mortalis and whatever pieces of the gear listed elsewhere but not in wowhead. My point was it is not completed as of yet and dwelling on such matters was trivial until the source of gear listing was finished.

I guess I educated myself too much before posting since I've been playing with OG since it was release in order to maximize dps from current gear available to me and there was a bug in getting gear from wowhead causing it to crash on my computer and the available gear as listed on mmo-champs vs. wowhead. Practice what you preach.

 

Nevinyrral

Wrong thread for this post.

 

Anthraxx

I found an interesting bug. T9 can not be picked from the included list. If I remove every other headpiece for example, I get an empty slot as a result of the calculation.

Running the latest version. Tried getting the gear from wowhead again, no go. I can see the items in gearlist.xml just fine. Reproducible at 100% rate, with and without "Include T9 bonuses" ticked.

 

Khaylius

Hello, a simple question which answer I just wasnt able to find in these posts.
I find the program pretty useful, and I was trying to understand while, the 2xT9 and 4xT9 wights fields currently show 0, while going from T7 to T8 we have a growing factor of 50.
Is there something I am missing or?
Also, is there a way to save the BiS gear so calculated in a text file, so to be able to import or use it in forums?
Would be, for example, useful to discuss the gear generated that way (by each of us) in a proper thread. That would bring, imo, in some good considerations if there is somehow a flaw in the algorythm, if any, or if people agree or not from personal experience with the outcome gear.
Furthermore I'd like to check if everyone is getting the same output as me. (Tho I dont see any reason why not but still...)

Thanks in advance

Khay

 

Demi9OD

Khaylius the weighting will vary slightly with your overall gear, but I ran each bonus through Simcraft in a logical upgrade order. From T8 2pc, T8 2+4pc, T8 2pc + T9 2pc, T9 2pc + T9 4pc, I came up with the following values. This was using a 13/58 build.

T8
2pc = 130
4pc = 100

T9
2pc = 220
4pc = 130 (with the added benefit of stronger corruptions while moving)

You can use these as a rough guideline if you don't want to run your own sim.