3.3 Compendium - Page 2

Calidus · 01/09/10, 2:38 AM

Originally Posted by Tordik

i've taken a look at the Affliction spec that you posted (56/0/15) and while through and through it is in fact a very good raiding spec i can't help but sit here and wonder what if the warlock chose to gem a combination of gem and hit (+gear) to get hit capped (17%) and then begin to put the 3 points from suppression into Fel Concentration?

as a warlock the way i see it .. the less hit i have to deal with in skills the better because i can focus on other talents that are more important in my opinion

as an Affliction warlock, however, i can only see this as being beneficiary due to the fact if the boss is near death (<25% health) and there is some kind of enemy AoE going on then the push-back would be much less for your drain soul and your DPS would not suffer nearly as much from it.

on the other hand do you possibly think that the 6% mana conservation would overall be more beneficial? i mean compared to the 70% resistance to spell push-back?

I don't think you can look at it as 70% spell push back vs 6% mana conservation. You also have to consider that amounts of spell, haste, crit and spirit you could have if you freed up 3% hit on you gear. Another thing to remember is that spell push back was changed when 3.0 came out, you can only be pushed back 2 twice per spell now. Most of the time DS is only being channeled for 15-20% of the duration of the fight and in most cases and ends up being 15-20% of your damage. The Added DPS again from not having DS pushed back, can't make up for the extra stats that you loose, which effect the majority you spells not just 1.

jordancub · 01/09/10, 4:33 AM

Yeah I agree with you there, with the 3 points, its soo benefitial, but what about the last 3 spare points, or even 2 in my case becasue I use DP now for mana. Seeing the way the 2nd wing in ICC is with constant AOE dam, having your spare points in there might be better than 6% mana. It's not just DS we are talking about, we are also talking about UA and Haunt.

~Thalia~ · 01/09/10, 8:01 AM

Your BiS profile for 0/56/15 shows 11% hit rating, when this spec is hitcapped at 13% for Alliance or 14% for Horde. Didn't check the other profiles.
And the change to Decimate and MC changed Demo playstyle quite a bit, which you couuld have mentioned, as pointed out a few posts above.

Part from that, the post is really good.

Edit : checked the wrong rating, it actually is 14%.

Madlax · 01/09/10, 8:21 AM

Do a reload, it should be at 14.07 with 369 hit.
60 neck, 50 MH, 82 gloves, 106 legs, 51 ring and 2 gems a 10 hit = 369.
The destro profile uses 2x10 hit gems as well - Alliance can just socket those with haste.
Note: I'm using Tusker as boot enchant over Icewalker/Spirit.

Naforce · 01/09/10, 8:37 AM

Originally Posted by ~Thalia~

Your BiS profile for 0/56/15 shows 11% hit rating, when this spec is hitcapped at 13% for Alliance or 14% for Horde. Didn't check the other profiles.
And the change to Decimate and MC changed Demo playstyle quite a bit, which you couuld have mentioned, as pointed out a few posts above.

Part from that, the post is really good.

It's actually 14% hit, you need to look at spell hit and not the other hit percentages. I'm quite certain that profile is not bis however, I'd switch the tier legs for the ones with haste and hit, [Plaguebringer's Stained Pants], since haste > crit. Other then that it looks good!

~Thalia~ · 01/09/10, 8:41 AM

Originally Posted by Naforce

It's actually 14% hit, you need to look at spell hit and not the other hit percentages. I'm quite certain that profile is not bis however, I'd switch the tier legs for the ones with haste and hit, [Plaguebringer's Stained Pants], since haste > crit. Other then that I'd probably gear like that, might get the hit-wand and use the spirit-staff instead just for rDPS but have to look into that before making any decisions.

Yep double checked it later. Edited my first post.
I probably would change for the haste legs too.

Naforce · 01/09/10, 8:57 AM

How come nevermelting ice and phylactery show no dps-gain for destruction? If they are much weaker then the others, you might just as well remove them from the list.

Madlax · 01/09/10, 9:08 AM

Not tested in the last build(V 6) as they weren't implemented, adding it right now actually.
#Edit
Added now, detailed comparison can be found back at Simcraft

Calidus · 01/09/10, 2:56 PM

Good point about it affect haunt and UA. Is their an easy way to edit the cast times of UA, haunt and drain soul is simcraft? I think it would interesting to see if adding a flat amount to the time to simulate the increased cast time from the pushback vs. the extra stat gains from none hit gear.

jordancub · 01/09/10, 5:54 PM

Removed.

Mystearica · 01/10/10, 1:59 AM

One thing I noticed that you didn't have in your post that you may or may not want to add is Black Magic vs 63/81sp for the various specs.

Rolcsi · 01/10/10, 8:09 AM

Madlax could you do another test for the orc warlocks with Command - passive
Damage dealt by Death Knight. Hunter and Warlock pets increased by 5%. about 0/18/53 vs. 0/13/58, please?

Madlax · 01/10/10, 8:55 AM

As for the last 2 posts:
I haven't tried Black Magic simply because I haven't seen any situation where haste would out-scale spell power.

For the Orc racial:
In 13_58_imp the Imp does 1002 DPS
In 18_53 the Imp does 1122 DPS(thats spot on the 12% from talents)
So even of you add 5% on top, you´re looking at 1050 vs 1178.
A difference that doesn't really matter in numbers.
I just reran the 18_53 profile with LT glyph and spirit gear and it performs better than with Imp glyph.

Even when we go ahead with Blizzards latest(imho a water drop on the hot stone) suggestion of double the Empowered Imp to 30%(excluding orc) with a quick and dirty calc:
1132 vs 1268 DPS - I'm sorry to admit, that change won't really cut it on it's own.

furcio · 01/10/10, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Madlax

As for the last 2 posts:
I haven't tried Black Magic simply because I haven't seen any situation where haste would out-scale spell power.

Usually 63sp is better than black magic.

But it doesn't mean 63sp is always better than black magic. Haste/DPS function graph is not straight line. Just because there are some points on graph (haste values) when rotation is better. For example your shadowbolt casting time lets you recast ua when its exacly about to expire etc. So if scale factors say haste is very close to sp, I think it's best to check if black magic isn't acctually better with current gearset. Replacing item with haste can change it.

Jona · 01/10/10, 8:03 PM

Affliction
56/0/15 outperforms 55/0/16 in most(thats like 90%) of the samples I took.
I will list both - but I suggest to take the 56/0/15 spec as affliction.

By how much does 56/0/15 outperform 55/0/16? Using DP instead of LT for mana, but still using LT for a slight SP buff seems like a lot of work for a small dps gain, so if the difference between these two specs is minimal, in a real raid situation, 55/0/16 may out-perform simply because the mana supply is not necessarily ever cut off entirely (if your pet dies, for example, you can't use DP), changing the way the spec is actually used.

I haven't done any independent testing, but it would seem that a 1 point difference for using DP over LT wouldn't significantly affect the spec's dps, even if it does affect scale factors. The only possible exception to this idea would be if a specific toon's gear was greatly skewed one way or another to match a spec's scale factors; i.e., a toon with a lot of spirit on its gear will have higher dps in 55/0/16, but a toon with higher crit will have higher dps in 56/0/15. Correct?