Warlock Cataclysm Preview Discussion - READ THE FIRST POST - Page 13

Eiffeltower · 09/10/10, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by nereme

I was under the impression that the 2pc bonus is just a static 10% reduction from the second you equip the 2pc bonus as theres no talk of a proc effect of a time limit etc

that makes much more sense. I must have missed a blue or something saying that exact thing, but what you describe would make much more sense given each classes's bonuses

Madlax · 09/11/10, 8:42 AM

Still not in the Beta but I'm curious about a few things still:
Are the Imp and SF Burning Embers treated separately or do they also override each other?

As I can't judge any PTR numbers, how is the destro playstyle looking right now?
Does SF outdamage and outscale IC with/without embers dot?

Fenz · 09/12/10, 4:27 AM

You can now test the new spells on the testrealms.

This is basically the exact same build as Cataclysm Beta, just without all the Cataclysm-only stuff. Old world changes, new quests, etc ... are NOT AVAILABLE, but will be available on live realms for people without the expansion after it's deployed.

Basically, on the test realms:

•Classes changes are up, new talent builds, new glyphs (not fully implemented yet), etc ...
•Revamped old zones are NOT available
•New graphics (textures, water effects) are NOT available
•Archaeology is NOT available
•Guild leveling is NOT available
•Flying in Azeroth is NOT available
•New content is NOT available

Source: MMO-Champion - Index

Naforce · 09/13/10, 10:48 AM

I tried some destro dps, glyph vendors are availible and all. I'm lvl 83 on the beta, with 50/50 cata/277-gear. The damage output was just horrible, although it is possible to have your pet as well as a doomguard/infernal up, so that adds another cd to use. They last for 45 sec untalented, I didn't try the infernal but I did try the doomguard. He was very weak, hitting for little under 1k every 2 sec or so. My incinerates (still lvl 83) hit for about 7-8k, same goes for soulfires. The general damage output was just way way worse then it is today, I guess they're having some problems converting int to spellpower and not screw up co-efficients. As for the warlock class, it seems pretty much done. Everything I've tried has worked fine, or at least worked, the only problem is the numbers. We'll just have to wait and see if they up the numbers or lower the current bosses hp. My mage friend, who also is on the beta, usually solo's parts of MC when he's bored. That was impossible for him to do now, even at level 83.

Flew · 09/13/10, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by Naforce

I tried some destro dps, glyph vendors are availible and all. I'm lvl 83 on the beta, with 50/50 cata/277-gear. The damage output was just horrible, although it is possible to have your pet as well as a doomguard/infernal up, so that adds another cd to use. They last for 45 sec untalented, I didn't try the infernal but I did try the doomguard. He was very weak, hitting for little under 1k every 2 sec or so. My incinerates (still lvl 83) hit for about 7-8k, same goes for soulfires. The general damage output was just way way worse then it is today, I guess they're having some problems converting int to spellpower and not screw up co-efficients. As for the warlock class, it seems pretty much done. Everything I've tried has worked fine, or at least worked, the only problem is the numbers. We'll just have to wait and see if they up the numbers or lower the current bosses hp. My mage friend, who also is on the beta, usually solo's parts of MC when he's bored. That was impossible for him to do now, even at level 83.

On the PTR, I was able to do more dps on a test dummy than I'm able to do on live (13k vs 10k). This is mostly because burning embers is currently doing about 7 times more damage that it probably should. Conflag, however, was was only hitting for 500 damage... You're right about the doomguard. The infernal hits about twice as hard and has his immolation aura on top of it.

Vada · 09/14/10, 7:34 PM

Now that Shaman give the same Spellpower buff (10% flat SP increase), will Demo be desirable?

I am looking at the talent changes and Demo looks like a PvP spec. Felguard special ability is snare removal, Succ vanishes, Fel hunter dispels, and the new AoE roots everything.

Onorvele · 09/15/10, 9:42 PM

Demonic Aegis
This has moved from providing 10/20/30% increase in effectiveness of Demon Armor and Fel Armor to providing a 50% increase in health generated by Demon Armor, and 100% increase in the health generated by Fel Armor. It is no longer a direct DPS gain.

What does this mean?

The +SP from Fel Armor may be going away - or may be retuned to not depend on spirit. Either way, Fel Armor is changing. It would be interesting to see Demon Armor becoming preferred for Aff.
With 30k health pools, we're talking 300 HP5 per point. Is it worth spending 2 talent points for the equivalent of equipping a Shiny Shard of the Flame?
The two points mean you'll recover from using Life Tap in 1/2 the time (25 seconds instead of 50 seconds, worst case).

Given that Life Tap will now be chewing 20% of health (is this max or base?), will it become expected of Warlocks to have the improved regen rate? Will this only become a differentiating factor in survival fights?

For the Demo warlock, is the utility of having 2x normal health regen worth more than:

Having 3/3 instead of 1/3 points in Demonic Embrace? Reducing the bonus stamina to 4% (instead of 10%) means that the two points in Demonic Aegis will only generate 89% additional health from Fel Armor (since the base health is lower), when compared to all other options.
Having 2 points in Demonic Rebirth? Losing a minion mid-fight results in the loss of a 20% damage reduction (Soul Link). Being able to get this back up at the cost of 2 GCDs will probably count more often than the extra health regen.
Having 2 points in Fel Synergy? Neither is a direct DPS talent, and while I do think that my output will be more than 2k DPS, that healing is going to my minion.
Having 2 points in Aura of Foreboding? If the Stun is as good as it sounds (a full Stun), the amount of damage this could prevent in add-heavy fights would be significant, offsetting the reduced health regen. At the same time, the snare may be a hassle when the tank is trying to move adds around.
Having 3/3 instead of 1/3 points in Shadow and Flame? Here's where the math starts getting fun - having a 1/3 chance of each SBolt to trigger a 30 second debuff means that it'll likely be applied after the 2nd one hit (on average). Would the DPS loss from crits be worth the reduced load on the healers?
Having 2 points in Emberstorm? Running low on health doesn't compare to a reduced the base cast time of execution phase Soul Fire from 3.6 seconds to 3.0 seconds, allowing for something like 20% additional Soul Fires in this phase. Not something I'm too likely to want to miss out on.
Having 2 points in Improved Immolate? Raw 20% boost to damage done to the highest DPCT spell we have in our rotation.
With regards to Ancient Grimoire and Bane, I think that the extra health regen is a non-starter against the DPS potential.

This leads me to believe that a build like this will maximize DPS potential

Thoughts?

~Thalia~ · 09/16/10, 3:18 AM

Regarding Shadow and Flame, you have to consider the rDPS lost by the crit debuff not being applied, not only your own dps loss.
That is, of course, if noone else is providing the debuff.

Onorvele · 09/16/10, 4:10 PM

Yeah - the math gets really really interesting with regards to rDPS, and becomes very raid-makeup and cast sequence specific when we expect the debuff only to be missing for the first few seconds of the fight.

It's also my understanding that the Blizz philosophy towards raid buffs/debuffs is that at least 2 different class/build combos will each be able to bring the equivalent - which is why Aff is getting Jinx (to match the AoE +spell damage that Unholy DK Ebon Plaguebringer, although this looks to be dropped down to 8%).

Mind you, I completely forgot to account for the +12% (3/3) vs +4% (1/3) to SBolt and Incin from Shadow and Flame. Given that my current rotations have SBolt accounting for around 50% of my damage done, this would cut pDPS by roughly 4% (back of the napkin math, feel free to correct). I think the math suddenly became significantly less interesting.

Flew · 09/16/10, 6:38 PM

I could see tanks getting really annoyed with the stuns from AoF when they need to reposition mobs. I'd maybe consider putting points in it if hand of guldan could be used situationally like shadowfury. However, since it will be in a demo locks rotation, I'd take the points out of AoF and put them in demonic aegis.

Madlax · 09/17/10, 8:41 AM

I was smashing the dummies for a bit to figure out how and WHAT the fuck(pardon that but it really is that way) Burning Embers does. Now, the result is kind of strange.

When hitting the dummy with SF, the dot did 30% of that initial damage as tick each second.
If the initial hit was a crit, all the dot ticks would be higher, but - even in 15 minutes smashing dummies I had not witnessed a single Dot crit - which I found rather odd.

When recasting Soulfire during the dot running and SF of course hitting before the dot ran out, in some(now this is really strange) cases the new Ember would override the old - despite being higher or lower - and in some it would just refresh the old dot for the same damage.

And the thing that puzzled me most, but at the same time would make some sense to the design intention, when my Imp would refresh MY SF ember, then it would keep ticking for the same amount forever.
I stood there with a 4.9k ember ticking each second while my Imp was doing close to 1500 DPS on his own.

Honestly think we should find some clarification on this.

Ratek · 09/17/10, 1:01 PM

Burning Embers are in the category of Ignite, Piercing Shots, Deep Wound etc. Hence it will not crit, unless something special applies (like the Ret T9 bonus for Righteous Vengeance). Neither it is likely to get affected by Haste (getting extra tics would just increase the value way beyond 30% of the initial hit).
I know it isn't critbased like the other abilities mentioned, but unlike abilities like Immolate or Flame Shock, the two portions are linked directly. If the initial hit is a crit, the DoT will work of that value. Unlike Immo or FS.

The overwiritng aspect, that ought to be a bug. Much like Holy Paladins and their Mastery until recently. It should like the first mentioned abilities stack up and fall off based on the individual hits.

Making a bugreport should clear it up one way or the other at some point.

Dastey · 09/18/10, 6:26 AM

Lets start a discussion regarding leveling specc.
Affliction - Instant and fast casts, a very good tagger, a lot of self healing. Recent nerf to siphon life making self healing reduced by a lot compared to before though
Demonology - A very nice DPS increase pet, Pet crits granting 4% mana, a nice defensive cooldown making you almost invulnerable, less self healing than affliction
Destruction - Least desireble? Slow casts, mana regen through replenishment and chaos bolt hits, really low self healing?

What do you guys expect to be the best leveling specc, afterall we just got a 45% self healing ability over 9 seconds with the recent buff to Harvest Soul (15% up from 5%)

Flamingcloud · 09/18/10, 12:25 PM

With mob health/damage being dramatically increased and siphon life being terrible I don't really see affliction being a viable level up spec unless they make shadow embrace a buff instead of a debuff. The ramp up time is too slow, and you will not be able to go around casting 1-2 dots on a mob and moving on.

So it really is between demonology and destruction and of those I think destruction is the clear choice. 4 second base cast time soulfire is a great lead off spell granting 15% haste about half the time while leveling. Soul Leech giving 10% health and mana on all soul fires, chaos bolts, and shadow burn is in my opinion the most healing by far of the 3 specs. You are almost certainly going to have both a soul fire and chaos bolt on every single mob, and possibly additional soul fires and a shadow burn. It is clearly infinite mana and it is probably infinite health as long as you don't aggro additional mobs.

Destruction is the least dot dependant as you will at most have immolate up and Conflag now does all of its damage directly. In addition you can use soul burn instant soul fire on cd and just get your shards back with shadow burn. When you level up you can take either demonic aegis for more health regen or mana feed if you somehow don't have enough mana.

Overall it seems like we will once again be one of the best leveling classes with a high kill speed and next to no down time.

Bonestorm · 09/18/10, 1:04 PM

I wouldn't expect soul leech to remain at 10% health/mana return per hit for long. If anything it looks like a mistake, considering they've been normalizing passive healing for dps classes across the board(including nerfing soul leech to 1/2% in a previous build), so it seems really out of place for it to be buffed back to 10% all of a sudden.