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Old 04/07/10, 5:05 PM   #16
tr0tsky
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Frostwolf
Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade View Post
This doesn't fit your description of the change to DoTs ticking faster, rather than having a shorter duration. Even if haste pushes it to tick once every 40 seconds, you'll only refresh it every 59.
If you only have one tic, such as with CoD, faster dot tick is the same as shorter duration. Although I suppose with a huge amount of haste you would get 2 ticks out of it in 1 minute?

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Old 04/07/10, 5:08 PM   #17
• bartolimu
palpably superior comprehension
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade View Post
This doesn't fit your description of the change to DoTs ticking faster, rather than having a shorter duration. Even if haste pushes it to tick once every 40 seconds, you'll only refresh it every 59.
Originally Posted by tr0tsky View Post
If you only have one tic, such as with CoD, faster dot tick is the same as shorter duration. Although I suppose with a huge amount of haste you would get 2 ticks out of it in 1 minute?
Exactly. It's perfectly consistent. Faster cooldown on BoD would also allow you to refresh it earlier, without losing any duration or resetting the tick counter at all.


Let's assume you've got enough haste to make BoD tick at 40 seconds.

0:00.0 - Apply BoD
0:40.0 - BoD ticks
1:00.0 - BoD falls off, cooldown finishes.

Now, assume some Impending Doom reduction of the cooldown.

0:00.0 - Apply BoD
0:40.0 - BoD ticks
0:50.0 - BoD cooldown finishes. Reapply before 1:00.0
1:20.0 - BoD ticks again.

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Old 04/07/10, 6:10 PM   #18
Montegomery
Aloof Aggravator
 
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Sutiru
Undead Warrior
 
No WoW Account
When I read the description of the talent change, it brought to mind the Elemental Shaman set bonus which reduced the cooldown on Elemental Mastery by a couple seconds after spell casts. The description of Impending Doom seemed like it would function in a similar manner.

My point was basically once you've reduced the cooldown on BoD by 1-2 seconds, anything beyond that isn't really useful unless you have multiple targets to DoT.

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Old 04/07/10, 6:14 PM   #19
• bartolimu
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Undead Warlock
 
Mal'Ganis
That's mostly true. The main advantage from Doom's perspective is greater flexibility, so you'll have more opportunity to renew the spell at a time that doesn't impact your rotation.

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Old 04/07/10, 6:22 PM   #20
Demonologist
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Detheroc
I've gotten so accustomed to the current dot mechanics that I don't really think anymore about how counterintuitive they have gotten, and I'm really excited to see such a shift in our basic playstyle. Unless I'm understanding things wrong, the changes will require recasting/refreshing dots shortly before they fall off, as opposed to the current need to refresh immediately after the dot's final tick. I think this will make the warlock class, particularly affliction, a lot more "approachable" to newer players without necessarily becoming any easier to play.

One of the things I see that could use some clarification is whether BoA will use the same increasing damage mechanic that CoA currently does. If thats the case, will the damage of the hasted ticks be calculated over the duration of the dot (ticks in the first 8 seconds small, next 8 medium, last 8 large) or ramp up quickly and remain at maximum level for the remainder (first 4 ticks small, next 4 medium, rest of duration large)? On top of that, will an early refresh reset the dot to its small ticks or allow the remaining big ones to tick off?

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Old 04/07/10, 7:23 PM   #21
Calidus
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Calidus
Undead Warlock
 
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With the changes to refreshing dots, if you know that in a encounter that you will have to switch off the boss and kill an add for a 1 minute(think heroic Professor), couldn't you spam your dots to get a dot that to last 1 min(or whatever you need it to)? It would become humanly possible to keep 100% uptime on dots even with target switching, for long periods of time. This would push warlock dps in game much closer to what simcraft estimates.

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Old 04/07/10, 8:26 PM   #22
scaffold
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Ravencrest (EU)
The PVP and PVE ramifications of the idea of stacking DoT durations indefinitely are a sign of it being too good to be true.

BTW - the new edited info about Hellfire being meant as Demo's SoC/RoF is worrying, because it requires being in melee...

Last edited by scaffold : 04/07/10 at 8:32 PM.

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Old 04/07/10, 9:16 PM   #23
turturin
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Warlock
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by scaffold View Post
BTW - the new edited info about Hellfire being meant as Demo's SoC/RoF is worrying, because it requires being in melee...
It seems like they'll have to give demo some threat reduction for at least AoE situations (if not accross the board). AoE in melee range is a lot riskier in general with the lower aggro threshold, and emphasizing hellfire will pretty much make it manadatory to do so.

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Old 04/07/10, 9:18 PM   #24
KraxisSingular
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
Originally Posted by scaffold View Post
BTW - the new edited info about Hellfire being meant as Demo's SoC/RoF is worrying, because it requires being in melee...
More like Blizzard has noticed that Demo locks like to Meta-Immoaura and stand in there. So why not make it so Hellfire works for them? If it is dangerous, I'm sure Seed and RoF aren't going to be exclusive, so you can use them when needed. If the three AoEs are going to be exclusive, then yes, worrisome. But since there was some comment about Elemental Shamans dropping Magma and the totem being teleported or some such to the target, I would think they know that meleerange is a good option, but never a good requirement for casters.

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Old 04/07/10, 9:26 PM   #25
Myrryr
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Draka
One thing I'm curious about is Ruin and what's going to happen to it if the current Destro Mastery remains the same. If you keep Ruin the way it is, it's going to make Crit and Mastery almost the guarenteed top stats for destro because the crit damage bonus from Mastery stacked with Ruin will be impressive, to say the least. Coupled with Soul Burn+Searing pain in pvp, your crit burst potential would be ridiculous.

EDIT: If they DON'T keep Ruin, then I ponder what will become of SBolt for affliction locks? Will they eventually make ALL shadow spells besides Shadowburn in the Affliction tree and make say Pandemic increase it's crit damage or will they simply no longer allow SBolt to crit for double damage?

Last edited by Myrryr : 04/07/10 at 9:31 PM.

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Old 04/07/10, 9:40 PM   #26
tr0tsky
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Frostwolf
Originally Posted by Calidus View Post
With the changes to refreshing dots, if you know that in a encounter that you will have to switch off the boss and kill an add for a 1 minute(think heroic Professor), couldn't you spam your dots to get a dot that to last 1 min(or whatever you need it to)? It would become humanly possible to keep 100% uptime on dots even with target switching, for long periods of time. This would push warlock dps in game much closer to what simcraft estimates.
It's going to be the same as Everlasting Affliction is now. You can't spam refresh it and increase the duration.

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Old 04/08/10, 6:07 AM   #27
Nisall
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Dunemaul (EU)
Originally Posted by tr0tsky View Post
It's going to be the same as Everlasting Affliction is now. You can't spam refresh it and increase the duration.
That is the way I read it as well. When you recast the DoT it goes back to its original starting timer kind of like glyphed Pestilence does with diseases.

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Old 04/08/10, 10:07 AM   #28
tuberqlosis
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Black Dragonflight
For those wondering if imp's new DoT will help Affl's Drain Soul, I doubt it. Soul Siphon increases the damage done by Drain Soul by "your Affliction effects on the target". The Imp's DoT will probably be located in the "Demon" portion of the spell book, meaning it is not an Affliction effect, so it should not improve DS damage.

On a largely untouched subject of the changes, I am interested in seeing the CD on Fel Flame. If Fel Flame's CD is lower than the CD of Immolate (untalented) or UA, it will be "Haunt 2.0". Keeping Glyph of Conflagrate (BTW: is the Wowhead item linking broken atm?), immolate will only fall off after the duration expires. If you can FF Immolate before it expires every time, then it'll function much the same way corruption currently functions. It wouldn't change destro's rotation too much, but swapping an instant for Immo's small cast time would really make the spec more mobile (huzzah for GCD-running).

For the reason above, I feel FF will be on a long CD, probably longer than the duration of UA and untalented Immolate (>15sec), but shorter than Molten Core 3/3 spec'd Immolate (<24sec). The ramifications of permanently, instantly being able to refresh UA in PVP are too large for Fel Flame to have a CD less than 15sec.

Most of the lock changes are PVP-oriented. Yes, there is the very welcome change of being able to DPS and CoElements for PVE, but isn't being able to BoAgony + CoExhaustion just as alluring?

Originally Posted by Yeoldelock View Post
- Who will be our primary targets for Dark Intent? I'm guessing Shadow Priests (DoT based DPS) and Holy Paladins (Flash Heal). If neither exist in the raid / party, who would be our secondary targets?
Can FoL HoT crit? I don't think it can, and I don't think Holydins are based on HoTing enough for Blizzard to implement the "HoTs now natively benefit from crit/haste" like they did for locks/priests. You'll notice that Shammies, with riptide, were not given the HoT clause. Now, I expect Resto druids to get that clause (assuming their HoTs cannot already crit). In a typical encounter, they throw out more HoTs than any other class I know of throws HoTs or DoTs, making them PRIME candidates for this buff. Assuming your raid doesn't have a resto druid tho, I imagine affl locks will trade DIs much the same way mages trade FM.

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Old 04/08/10, 11:46 AM   #29
Cangiz
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Shu'halo
If dots are benefited by haste, yet do not clip on renewal before expiration, at what point is the haste going to be applied. I am thinking heroism/black magic here.

For example you just apply UA and you have 0 haste on, then you get heroism + black magic and reapply UA instantly, would you get the full 15 second duration to be fully hasted at that point, or would it only be the last ~1 second of the duration(essentially the amount added be recasting UA instantly). I am going to assume that it automatically applies the full nature of haste to the entire debuff, which means that during heroism phases we are going to be recasting dots very early to apply a hasted dot.

Also the implications of the current dot refresh process is that refreshing dots as LATE as possible is going to provide the highest dps possible(due to it adding the most time to the previous dot), however missing a refresh is going to cost you half a dot tick(on average depending on haste), severely lowering DPCT of the initial dot cast. Therefore it is much safer to refresh a bit earlier to ensure you "clip" your previous dot probably with 0.5-1.0 seconds left rather than trying to do 0.1-0.4.

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Old 04/08/10, 12:16 PM   #30
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
Tuberqlosis, Fel Flame was specifically mentioned to be a Demo tool. It isn't unreasonable to expect that tree to lower the cooldown to fit with Immolate one way or another, likely with Molten Core. I would find that to be a cool way to make the spell good for all more or less, but an integral part of one spec. I can easily imagine Affs going to pop Fel Flame to keep UA running as much as possible.

Also, the desription doesn't mention HoTs, while that is a logical conclusion. If it applies to all heals, then it is certainly good enough for any healer. Would be interesting if both it and Focus Magic would stack on one player. But I tought the most common target would be other Warlocks, Affs in particular. Two Afflocks doing what many Mages do already, and Rogues for that matter. But Spriests certainly make for excellent targets too.

Cangiz, your confusion is understandable, but it is really simple.

Corruption has a duration of 18 seconds. If it gets Hasted enough to get another tick in that time it will get that tick. If it is slightly lower than that it will still last 18 seconds, but the last 2 seconds+ will not actually do any damage. Basically DoTs and HoTs that are affected don't need to end on a tick.
Lets say you manually apply Corruption during the 'dead time' near the end, then the 'first' tick will happen at the time it should had the first application been extended. In a sense you can get a tick almost right away if your Haste is nearing an addition of a new tick. This should lower the 'need' to get Haste plateaus as if you apply the DoTs/Hots correctly you will not lose any ticks at any point due to Haste not addint new ticks yet.

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