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Old 10/07/10, 1:18 PM   #286
Flamingcloud
Great Tiger
 
Goblin Warlock
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by Warlocomotif View Post
Good point.

In regards to the "test" from the person above: Currently Shadow and Flame does not effect incinerate.
Ah, you are right. That would make Soul Fire get surpassed at essentially all gear levels, and it would also make backdrafted incinerates better than searing pain above 50%.

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Old 10/07/10, 9:12 PM   #287
Gerant
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Dastey View Post
Been testing different scenarios of Destruction on the PTR and here are the results:

Glyphs: Incinerate, Immolate, Conflagrate
Filler: Incinerate
DPS: 11800

Glyphs: Incinerate, Immolate, Conflagrate
Filler: Soul Fire
DPS: 12400

Glyphs: Imp, Immolate, Conflagrate
Filler: Soul Fire
DPS: 12100

To me it seems like Soul Fire is the bester filler for Destruction only bad thing about using Soul Fire as filler is that sometimes the instant Soul Fire procc and if you finish the cast its gone. So either stop casting and use instant or continue casting and losing the buff.
Are you testing on a dummy at or above 80% health? If so you are also getting Improved Soulfire effects that wouldn't be present below 80% target health.

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Old 10/08/10, 2:15 AM   #288
Dastey
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Neptulon (EU)
I tested again and nowhere near the same results, I guess I had been slightly lucky with crits and proccs on my soulfire attempts.

Anyhow a question.
What glyphs should destruction be using come patch 4.0.1? Immolate and Conflagrate to me seems like pretty demand, but should the last be imp or should it be incinerate assuming immolate > Conflagrate > Chaos bolt > Instant soulfire > Searing Pain rotation under 50% (including doom ofc)

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Old 10/08/10, 3:40 AM   #289
Envý
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Der Rat von Dalaran (EU)
Originally Posted by matornot View Post
Since the 3% haste and 9% dot/hot buffs apply to both you and your target, I have a suspicion that you couldn't benefit from 2 different sets of them. I have a feeling that blizzard wouldn't want us to get 18% bonus dot damage. Also they may have added this mutual benefit in response to arcane mages trading FM, instead of giving FM to healers or people who benefit more from crit than an arcane mage (most classes).
The last time I tried that the 2 Dark Intents do indeed stack. I had 2 DI Haste Buffs, the one from the other lock and my own.
However that was a few builds ago.

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Old 10/08/10, 4:30 AM   #290
Regul
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Burning Legion
Originally Posted by Nosajtpno View Post
Trying to work out the ideal classes to put Dark Intent on. Sometimes the choice will be obvious, but if not, or another affliction warlock has already taken the good choice, it's good to have an idea of what trumps what.

Death Knight: 2 Diseases, ticks every 3 sec.
4-5 Refresh Chances Per 7 sec

Fire Mage (Fireball): Living Bomb, ticks every 3 sec. Pyroblast, ticks every 3 sec, not gauranteed uptime. Ignite, ticks every 2 seconds after crit. (plus Combustion 1 sec ticks and Flamstrike when AoE) (plus haste ticks)
2-9+ Refresh Chances Per 7 sec (plus haste ticks)
Fire Mage (FrostFire): same as above, with Frostfire glyph ticking every 3 sec. (plus haste ticks)
4-12+ Refresh Chances Per 7 sec (plus haste ticks)

Resto Shaman: Riptide ticks every 3 sec, but is on a 6 sec cooldown, so can't be on too many people at once even in a best-case scenerio.
2-5 Refresh Chances Per 7 sec (plus haste ticks)

Holy Priest: Mastery gives a short term (6-sec) HoT to most spells. Renew ticks every 3 sec plus haste, with a chakara that is focused on allowing spam of it. If the priest is using that chakara the whole fight, it could be pretty good. If the priest is mostly tank healing, it is less good. (The HoTs roll into a single HoT on the target, so you only get it + Renew if applicable)
3-7+ Refresh Chances Per 7 sec (plus haste ticks)
A few things you overlooked:
-I don't know the Fire Mage rotation, but their new Flame Orb spell is a channeled DoT.

-Resto Shamans have the new Healing Rain AoE heal as well as the Earthliving Weapon enchant which, when it procs, places a HoT. Earthliving Weapon, when glyphed has a 40% chance to place another HoT on heal and if I recall correctly, shamans can currently dual wield Earthliving-enchanted weapons. This makes Resto Shamans an appealing choice for lack of Resto Druids, Shadow Priests, or Affliction Warlocks.

-Death Knights: Unholy also gets the Unholy Blight DoT which ticks for 10% of Death Coil's damage every second for 10 seconds. Thinking this might be another opportunity for Dark Intent procs, I tested this on PTR to see if it crits and it does not. So Unholy DK's are no better a target for DI than Frost.

An interesting mechanic presented itself with this though, because Unholy Blight is 10% of Death Coil's damage, perhaps this is the reason it does not crit? I've heard reports from Holy Priests on PTR that their mastery effect does not crit either, and it follows these same rules. This would lead me to believe that Ignite and, by the same token, Burning Embers ticks would also not crit, severely reducing the usefulness of DI on Fire Mages, Holy Priests, and the Imp.

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Old 10/08/10, 11:40 AM   #291
Talimar
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Kazzak (EU)
Originally Posted by matornot View Post
channeled spells aren't ideal spam spells due to the fact that they can't benefit from spell queuing. i.e. you either clip your previous DL or you leave a lag pocket in between your DLs.
You're right about spell queuing but there's a macro that last you spam drain life:
#showtooltip Drain Life
/cast [nochanneling:Drain Life] Drain Life

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Old 10/08/10, 12:43 PM   #292
dakalro
Don Flamenco
 
Human Warlock
 
Frostmane (EU)
Yes, the point was that macro is client based and will add a double latency minimum gap between Drain Life casts. While the best way to do would be with a quartz like cast bar that shows latency, no macro and doing the 2nd Drain Life as soon as the cast bar enters the latency area.

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Old 10/08/10, 4:36 PM   #293
Xayide
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warlock
 
Azralon
About that, I'll quote Keldion's post from another forum:

Originally Posted by Keldion
As for queueing, I would direct you to MMO-Champion BlueTracker | Shadow Priest Concerns for Cataclysm. Mind Flay is the sister spell of our Drain Life, so there is reason to expect to be able to queue it up similar to Shadow Bolt. Nothing is certain, of course.
I don't expect that to be implemented for 4.0 though. I'm not sure if it is for Mind Flay, but it definitely is not for Drain Life on the PTR.

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Old 10/08/10, 5:40 PM   #294
Onorvele
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Cairne
Originally Posted by Flamingcloud View Post
The problem with your napkin math conculsion is you forgot that Impending Doom gives you a 15% chance on shadow bolt, incinerate and hand of guldan to reduce the cooldown of metamorphosis by 15 seconds. In reality you could just as often be waiting on demon soul as you are metamorphosis. Since the cooldowns are so close, as long as they stack it is clear that you would want to use them together, as well as any trinkets, potions and other cds.
Fair enough - the essence of the conclusion will remain the same: cast Demon Soul:FG and Meta at the same time. Can ID proc multiple times per cycle? I've assumed that it can when scoping out talents - but haven't worked out the specific probabilities of n procs given m casts.

Yes I know I am *way* over hit cap.

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Old 10/09/10, 2:15 AM   #295
matornot
Von Kaiser
 
matornot's Avatar
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Hydraxis
Originally Posted by Xayide View Post
As for queueing, I would direct you to MMO-Champion BlueTracker | Shadow Priest Concerns for Cataclysm. Mind Flay is the sister spell of our Drain Life, so there is reason to expect to be able to queue it up similar to Shadow Bolt. Nothing is certain, of course.
That's somewhat reassuring. At least Shadow Priests will finally be able to relax a bit, as long as they clip their Mind Flay between its last 2 ticks (kind of like our UA). Maybe the reason we haven't seen this change in Drain Life is because they aren't planning on changing it the same way. Note that Soulburn still halves the Drain Life duration. But anyway all this is useless to us if we'll be spamming SB instead of DL as Ghostcrawler has "predicted". I want to say that my previous statement excludes affliction's execute phase, but Haunt and BoA won't allow us to benefit from it anyway.

Edit: One nice thing I thought of is that our Soulburn effect for DL will always make DL's duration equal to our GCD, so we'll have no problem spamming another button during that DL because we will literally not be able to clip it with another cast.

Last edited by matornot : 10/09/10 at 2:36 AM.

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Old 10/09/10, 3:49 AM   #296
Keldion
Von Kaiser
 
Keldion's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Moon Guard
Over the last few days, I have worked on a spreadsheet to illustrate the differences in Drain Life and Shadow Bolt scaling with their respective talents. The context of GC's recent comment about predicting Shadow Bolt filler was clearly centered around Cataclysm PVE; it matters not one bit if he is incorrect only in relation to the 8 remaining weeks in Wrath.

Drain's coefficient took a hit in PTR build 13156, resulting in a more linear DPSC scaling that effectively runs parallel to SB without additional Mastery taken into consideration.

L80 Affliction PTR DL/SB Comparisons

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Old 10/09/10, 4:57 PM   #297
Ratek
Banned
 
Troll Shaman
 
Runetotem (EU)
Originally Posted by Keldion View Post
Over the last few days, I have worked on a spreadsheet to illustrate the differences in Drain Life and Shadow Bolt scaling with their respective talents. The context of GC's recent comment about predicting Shadow Bolt filler was clearly centered around Cataclysm PVE; it matters not one bit if he is incorrect only in relation to the 8 remaining weeks in Wrath.

Drain's coefficient took a hit in PTR build 13156, resulting in a more linear DPSC scaling that effectively runs parallel to SB without additional Mastery taken into consideration.

L80 Affliction PTR DL/SB Comparisons
Hm, I'm a little surprised it was a basic scaling nerf to DL. While it would most definately settle the issue right here and now, I was a bit worried the Mastery would eventually overcome this, and I mean within reasonable ranges. And that's the problem really. Blizzard can't nerf DL too much, or else it would be a wholly useless spell, something that clearly isn't the intent. But they still want SB to be the filler, while not scaling with Mastery. That's the recepie for conflict. And it seems that the crosspoint is lower than I expected (85 numbers should be somewhat different though). But the cross is actually a fair bit lower since it doesn't take Nightfall into account. The amount of extra procs with DL is non-negliable.

So, either it will be a constant rebalance of SB and DL, something I doubt Blizzard is interested in doing, since the last few attempts at that have been less than impressive. Or, they will even the playingfield between the two spells, either by taking DL out of the Mastery (the boring and perhaps least balanced result) or they make SB scale with certain selfbuffs, SE seems the most suitable candidate.
The problem with taking DL out of the Mastery is obvious, it simply becomes obsolete rather fast.

It's a mess really. And I don't see why Blizzard doesn't at least try DL out as viable. It doesn't have to be the only option. Much like Fire Mages and Fury Warriors get two options, Affliction Warlocks could be tested out with DL. And it wouldn't even have to be through the tree. It could be a glyph that increases DL's damage by X% and reduces the healing by Y% (not that I think it is terribly needed). One of the greatest arguments for DL is that it fits so very nicely, while SB doesn't.
If people are happy with DL, despite it's weakness as a channeled spell (something Blizzard does want to fix due to Spriests), then keep it. If it is unpopular due to those same weaknesses, then it can be shafted in 4.1 or something.

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Old 10/11/10, 2:26 AM   #298
Jmickey
<3 Kitty
 
Jmickey's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Saurfang
As there is nowhere else currently to discuss this, I thought here would be best, despite this being related more to the upcoming patch than the actual upcoming expansion.

I currently play Demo on live, and plan to continue to do so in 4.0.1 and in Cata. The L80 Demo spec I have come up with for 4.0.1 looks like this:

WoW Talent Calculator - Sigrie

This also includes glyphs.

Looking at the stats for demo, the stat priority order would probably look something like:

Hit -> Haste -> Mastery -> Crit.

With excess hit and crit being reforged into Haste. Gemming would look like:

Red: +10 Int +10 Haste
Blue: +10 Haste +10 Hit
Yellow: +20 Haste

Any opinions or discussion on this would be greatly appreciated. If this is the wrong place to post this then I apologize and would be happy to take an infraction, but here did seem best.

*Editted because I stuffed up the first time

Last edited by Jmickey : 10/11/10 at 1:55 PM.

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Old 10/11/10, 3:20 AM   #299
Lemina
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Dreadmaul
Originally Posted by Jmickey View Post
Yellow: +10 Int +10 Mastery
I could be wrong, but mastery gems aren't implemented till cata, I think.

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Old 10/11/10, 4:19 AM   #300
Jmickey
<3 Kitty
 
Jmickey's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by Lemina View Post
I could be wrong, but mastery gems aren't implemented till cata, I think.
Is anyone able to confirm this? I don't really have access to PTR due to Australia's lack of internet quota. Even in that case though, you would simply gem Int/Haste in yellow sockets instead.

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