Fury DPS: 4.0 and Cataclysm - Page 17

Deathwing · 12/31/10, 1:37 AM

Originally Posted by Althizor

Something I haven't seen considered much is that inner rage has virtually no effect on the efficiency of execute.

You get 15% damage for a 17% increase in cost (30 rage to 35 rage if you have high rage, only the base cost is changed)

If you are willing to make sure you always have 35 rage for your executes, and if you don't get so much rage that you can't spend it all with execute, keeping inner rage up during the execute phase is a pretty much free 15% increase in white damage. You just may want to cancel it before using colossus smash. You don't need to try to hover above 75 rage, just get up there every 15 seconds or so.

If you are getting enough rage to heroic strike during the execute phase, you could still game this a little, but it'd be trickier.

Simcraft says it's a ~1-2 percent overall dps increase to just use inner rage the whole time while executing. This includes leaving it up when using colossus smash(I tested canceling it for smash, this was better). All I did was add IFs to the other abilities so they wouldn't be used during execute phase, then added a couple IFs to execute to only use when colossus smash or inner rage buffs are up:

actions=flask,type=titanic_strength
actions+=/food,type=beer_basted_crocolisk
actions+=/stance,choose=berserker,if=!in_combat
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/golemblood_potion,if=!in_combat|buff.bloodlust.react
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/recklessness
actions+=/death_wish
actions+=/heroic_strike,if=target.adds=0&(rage>60|buff.battle_trance.up|buff.incite.up)&target. health_pct>=20
actions+=/cleave,if=target.adds>0
actions+=/whirlwind,if=target.adds>0
actions+=/colossus_smash
actions+=/inner_rage,if=target.health_pct<20
actions+=/execute,if=buff.colossus_smash.up|buff.inner_rage.up
actions+=/bloodthirst,if=target.health_pct>=20
actions+=/slam,if=buff.bloodsurge.react&target.health_pct>=20
actions+=/berserker_rage,if=!(buff.death_wish.up|buff.enrage.up|buff.unholy_frenzy.up)&rage>15& cooldown.raging_blow.remains<1
actions+=/raging_blow,if=target.health_pct>=20
actions+=/battle_shout,if=rage<70

Beware, I tuned this with SMF. I also added a couple tunings for battle shout and heroic strike. Heroic strike was 50 rage and battle shout was 30 rage. I found slightly more dps with these values.

Chriski · 01/01/11, 6:05 AM

I've been curious to see what peoples oppinions are on picking up SMF while also being TG, purely for the 20% execute phase. Is it worth dropping a point from either Incite or Deep Wounds for this? I haven't tested it, but I found SMF had far superior Execute range damage than TG when I was playing SMF for the first few weeks of Cata, but TG has been superior from 100-21%, thus changing to TG.

Titanshammer · 01/01/11, 11:17 AM

Well I have been using Chardev.org too, to try to figure out a BiS list for SMF. Also from raiding so far I have noticed that the full 27% hit is not needed for decent rage gen. Around 17% hit seems to be working well for me so my lists consist of that much hit. As of right now from what I am hearing their is not a heroic Soul Blade in the game so my heroic list has Lava Spine.

Normal - chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta
Heroic - chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta

Still not sure what is better to go with, off tier chest, gloves or legs. Thinking the gloves for the extra crit but only time will tell on that. If anyone else is messing around with SMF let me know what you think and what your ideas have been so far for gear.

Grive · 01/01/11, 8:13 PM

As huge of a fan I'am of Landsoul's spreadsheet, I'am wondering if using Rawr for the time being is worth it. I can see that it isn't quite finished, but will it at least guide me in the right direction with getting the proper stats and caps? I played with it a little here and there and the gear priorities seem proper, just not sure if using the optimized section will steer me in the right direction when I decide to completely re- reforge and gem.

Powerslave · 01/01/11, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by Titanshammer

Well I have been using Chardev.org too, to try to figure out a BiS list for SMF. Also from raiding so far I have noticed that the full 27% hit is not needed for decent rage gen. Around 17% hit seems to be working well for me so my lists consist of that much hit. As of right now from what I am hearing their is not a heroic Soul Blade in the game so my heroic list has Lava Spine.

Normal - chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta
Heroic - chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta

Still not sure what is better to go with, off tier chest, gloves or legs. Thinking the gloves for the extra crit but only time will tell on that. If anyone else is messing around with SMF let me know what you think and what your ideas have been so far for gear.

As far as gemming is concerned,you shouldn't be using your chimera's eyes on 67 hit,they must be used for 67 strength instead.

davidcroda · 01/01/11, 10:34 PM

Removed because my guesses were quite false. Read Wheeljack's post 2 down to find estimated numbers on the required crit for 95% flurry up time.

Morsexy · 01/02/11, 1:59 AM

Originally Posted by Grive

As huge of a fan I'am of Landsoul's spreadsheet, I'am wondering if using Rawr for the time being is worth it. I can see that it isn't quite finished, but will it at least guide me in the right direction with getting the proper stats and caps? I played with it a little here and there and the gear priorities seem proper, just not sure if using the optimized section will steer me in the right direction when I decide to completely re- reforge and gem.

I don't believe Rawr.Fury or whatever it is called is up to date. For instance it has [Heart of Rage] as the BIS by about 300 rawr "dps" over [Heart of Solace], which is about 300 ahead of [License to Slay]. This is because all trinkets are set to ICD of 45 second vs the new formula of 5 times the trinket uptime.

Granted I'm pretty sure the heroic version of HoR is going to be BIS, but not by the calculation found on Rawr currently.

I think for now sticking with something like Chardev is best until one of the usual calculation staples comes along.

FBMWhite · 01/02/11, 11:25 AM

It saws Rawr.Fury is not ready in giant red letters in Rawr.

Wheeljack · 01/02/11, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by davidcroda

Hi all. This has been touched on above, but noone has really answered it completely.

I understand having flurry up 100% is pretty important to our rage generation and overall dps. It has been said that it might be worth gemming some crit to a certain point, and then continuing to stack hit to the white cap.

My question is, can someone figure out what that point is? What crit % do we need to ensure virtually 100% uptime on flurry.

This is what I have tried to figure out in my head, but it could be totally false, so someone please correct me if wrong.

Using my 2x 3.5 second weapons:

That will give us 4 white swings in 7 seconds. (Here is the first part i'm unsure about... can we count the 4th white swing, assuming it is close enough to the 3rd because they are on the same swing timer?)

In 7 seconds, we can use 4x 1.5 second GCD's.

So that makes a total of 8 possible chances to crit, within that window (or 7 if we aren't counting the 4th white swing).

1/8 = 12.5% crit
1/7 = 14.3% crit

Those seem low... so I am thinking I am missing something in my pseudo-calculations.

Can someone smarter then me tell me if I am even on the right track?

Those numbers are too low, because you're not calculating the 100% rate of uptime. If you want to make sure you have a 95% chance of avoiding a 8 hit streak with no crits, you'd need 32% crit.

In other words, with 32% crit, 5% of the time you'd still occasionally drop flurry.

However, I question your use of 7 (or 8). First off, flurry only grants our next 3 hits haste. When I'm flurried, my weapon speed drops to 2.75 atm (no buffs/totems). This means I'll consume those 3 hits in just about 4 seconds. That gives us 2 GCDs in there to crit, maybe another 3rd outside of it to proc flurry before the next white hit. So, conservatively, we want to know what crit percentage will help us keep flury up with just 5 hits, maybe 6.

With this change, assuming 6 hits we need 39% crit. With 5 hits we'd need a whopping 45% crit to ensure (95%) no 5 hit streaks with zero crits.

This is not counting bonuses such as slam glyph, incite, etc, which would lower the overall crit requirement.

The math for this is complicated, but if you'd like to know more, research calculation of streaks.

gman · 01/03/11, 12:15 PM

Anyone else having Slam act buggy with /stopcasting?

I tried using a macro to wrap slam since occasionally I would be a split second too late on hitting it and then watch the channel bar of doom.

So I took someone's advice and tried
/cast Slam
/stopcasting

I wanted to see how well this worked, I start mashing Slam even when I didn't have the buff. Result: still get the Channeling bar of doom sometimes.

Something else I read said to add another /stopcasting to the macro. However, I still get channeled slams sometimes. Add a third one, still can get full slams.

Is anyone else using Slam like this getting this kind of behavior?

galvin · 01/03/11, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by gman

Anyone else having Slam act buggy with /stopcasting?

I tried using a macro to wrap slam since occasionally I would be a split second too late on hitting it and then watch the channel bar of doom.

So I took someone's advice and tried
/cast Slam
/stopcasting

I wanted to see how well this worked, I start mashing Slam even when I didn't have the buff. Result: still get the Channeling bar of doom sometimes.

Something else I read said to add another /stopcasting to the macro. However, I still get channeled slams sometimes. Add a third one, still can get full slams.

Is anyone else using Slam like this getting this kind of behavior?

I use /stopcasting before and after /cast Slam. I find this works best and rarely ever get slam casting bar.

Popoa · 01/03/11, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by gman

Anyone else having Slam act buggy with /stopcasting?

I tried using a macro to wrap slam since occasionally I would be a split second too late on hitting it and then watch the channel bar of doom.

So I took someone's advice and tried
/cast Slam
/stopcasting

I wanted to see how well this worked, I start mashing Slam even when I didn't have the buff. Result: still get the Channeling bar of doom sometimes.

Something else I read said to add another /stopcasting to the macro. However, I still get channeled slams sometimes. Add a third one, still can get full slams.

Is anyone else using Slam like this getting this kind of behavior?

With the way the macro is written, it looks like you would either need to press the macro a second time to cancel casting, or you can try adding a very short delay between the /cast Slam and the /stopcasting.

The recommended macro on wowwiki is similar to what you wrote:
#showtooltip
/stopcasting
/cast Slam
/stopcasting
/startattack

But this macro will likely still take two key presses. When I get home from work, I'll play with some macro writing and edit this post with what I find if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Fearnot · 01/03/11, 3:42 PM

Why not just put the /stopcasting /startattack lines into a BT macro? I'm sure your muscle memory makes you press slam once then go back to spamming BT anyway. Just seems more streamlined while accomplishing the same effect.

Valys · 01/03/11, 11:24 PM

I've not done any controlled tests with SMF in execute phase but I currently have both TG and SMF in my build. I do switch to 1-hand weapons sub 20% and I've noticed an increase in damage during that phase. Execute and HS are our main dps abilities sub 20% and both are affected greatly with the 15% increase to damage since neither is based off weapon damage. Even with the decrease to stats from the swap HS hits for about 500 more damage (with 10 stacks of Slayer only) and from what I can remember from raid testing execute was hitting for around 1-2k more (obviously raid buffed).

As far as talents go I'd think putting only 1 point in DW and filling Incite would be better dps than 2 points in each (assuming you're taking both TG and SMF).

I think the consensus is that spamming execute/HS (maybe a BT here and there for Battle Trance?) sub 20% is better dps than keeping our normal rotation regardless whether we have TG, SMF or both. So the real question is this: Is it better dps to take TG+SMF and swap to 1h for execute phase or take either TG/SMF and get 2/3 DW and 3/3 Incite?

jpcesar · 01/04/11, 4:58 AM

Originally Posted by Popoa

But this macro will likely still take two key presses. When I get home from work, I'll play with some macro writing and edit this post with what I find if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Yesterday I was playing around with that macro and in fact it requires two key presses.

The problem is that after the first keypress the button is showing the GCD so I was not able to press it a second time right after, but just only after the GCD finishes. Is there anyway to bypass this?

The provided damage bonus of Inner Rage with the rage-free bloodsurge proc makes this a very attractive combo but we should be able to do it on a single click. Use power auras to track when both procs are up at same time.