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Old 01/06/11, 2:48 PM   #271
Deathwing
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Black Dragonflight
I doubt that change the mastery will make up the 35% nerf to heroic strike damage. Heroic strike is almost always ~20% of my dps, raging blow is under 5%. I'm SMF, so maybe add 50% more for TG. Since mastery is currently a garbage stat, that buff isn't going to make it appealing enough to get gear with it, so very little will change(in regards to the mastery).

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Old 01/06/11, 3:19 PM   #272
Montegomery
Aloof Aggravator
 
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Sutiru
Undead Warrior
 
No WoW Account
There's not only a change to Mastery, but also the War Academy change as well. Taken together they are roughly a 21% increase in Raging Blow damage. Using the numbers for TG from this post the changes buff Raging Blow's contribution by 2.7% while lowering Heroic Strike's by 5.2%. The 2.5% difference is only partially up by the mastery change also buffing (slightly) Death Wish and Enrage.

There's essentially a 1.5% or so gap that isn't filled, unless Blizzard is counting on most raiders having some mastery on their gear because it's practically unavoidable.

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Old 01/07/11, 6:49 AM   #273
MildCorma
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Priest
 
Stormrage (EU)
"Unshackled Fury (Mastery) now grants 5.6% benefit per mastery point, up from 4.7%."

Along with the 20% nerf to Heroic Strike this has made me think. Is this change enough to actually make a difference, or is it, as I suspect, just enough of a change to negate the DPS lost from heroic strike? I would say it's going to take alot more than that to make mastery our best stat or anything even close.

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Old 01/07/11, 7:16 AM   #274
ComMcNeil
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Azshara (EU)
I tried to get some kind of calculation of this, but mastery is a little tricky, napkin math inc.
I assumed enrage had an uptime of about 67% (I calculated with 2x 3.0 attack speed on average and 0.66 specials per second, so a special on every GCD, which is not possible), than a point of mastery is about a 0.38% damage bonus concerning the Enrage buff alone. We also get a damage boost on Raging blow and Death Wish, so it may be that mastery surpasses haste as a damage stat, although they both work together pretty well concerning Enrage uptime.
But given that HS now is nerfed, haste will devalue even further after we can keep our basic rotation up and running (and that is possible with pretty basic levels of crit and haste).

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Old 01/07/11, 9:25 AM   #275
pedread
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Grim Batol (EU)
I will use logs from Omnitron @ Blackwing Descent as an example: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Looks like Raging Blow got nerfed by 30% weapon damage = -5286 damage on my average of 17623 damage(including crits) per hit. It will now be 12337 when Raging Blow nerf is applied.

I am using my character as an example and my mastery value is 13.40.
Fury warriors' mastery will be buffed by 0.9%(4.7 to 5.6) per point of mastery on Raging Blow and Death Wish.


Before Unshackled Fury (Mastery) now grants 5.6% benefit per mastery point, up from 4.7%.
13.40x4.7 = 62%

After Unshackled Fury (Mastery) now grants 5.6% benefit per mastery point, up from 4.7%.
13.40x5.6 = 75%

110% Weapon damage from Raging Blow + 63% = 179% weapon damage
80% Weapon damage from Raging Blow + 75% = 130% weapon damage


With Raging Blow nerf and mastery buff my Raging Blow's weapon damage will be reduced by 49%.

Now let's believe Death Wish will make us gain the DPS we lost on Raging Blow..

Death Wish increases physical damage by 20% without any mastery, 32% with old mastery(4.7%) and 35% with new mastery(5.6%). - again, with my character as example

.. no way we will gain the DPS we lost on Raging Blow.

Resuming:

-49% Weapon Damage on Raging Blow
+3% Physical damage increase on Death Wish
-20% Heroic Strike damage

= SHIT

Correct me if I am wrong, didn't have time for more calcs.. spent 5 minutes with it.

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Old 01/07/11, 9:38 AM   #276
Yazuka
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Xavius (EU)
Originally Posted by pedread View Post
Words
Raging Blow hasn't been nerfed, The 80% was for the level 39 skill that was saying 110%. So you've gained 12% more raging blow damage and not lost 49%.

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Old 01/07/11, 9:53 AM   #277
Yazuka
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Xavius (EU)
MMO-Champion BlueTracker

"Also, it's important to note that we didn't nerf Raging Blow (Fury warrior talent). The attack continues to do 110% at level 80. We fixed a tooltip bug and it’s possible that you're seeing the base damage at level 39, which is 80%, and not the final damage at max level, which remains 110% as it has been for some time."

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Old 01/07/11, 10:38 AM   #278
reighnman
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by ComMcNeil View Post
But given that HS now is nerfed, haste will devalue even further after we can keep our basic rotation up and running (and that is possible with pretty basic levels of crit and haste).
It also helps to clarify what our stance on gemming should be. With the changes to heroic strike and introduction of the new Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond (Strength/3% critical damage), it will now become much easier for us to gem strength once again with less focus on stacking hit. The meta requirements will be even easier for JCs as 3 Bold Chimeras alone will take care of it for us.

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Old 01/07/11, 5:22 PM   #279
Warrax
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Zul'Jin
The nerf to HS is probably a net dps loss if you're SMF specced since RB isn't that great and HS is much stronger with that spec (and because of incite).

But considering what GC said:

We think Fury dps is about right or perhaps slightly low on live, so we don’t intend to lower their damage overall. Please keep in mind that the final list of class changes will likely be far longer than this.
I suppose we will receive more compensation, well I hope so.

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Old 01/09/11, 6:05 AM   #280
apamberk
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Caelestrasz
Originally Posted by Endeav View Post
This macro works perfectly for me, just hit your slam key twice whenever you have bloodsurge to make sure inner rage is cancelled, or you could macro your bloodthirst to also include cancelaura before casting bloodthirst.

#showtooltip
/cast Inner Rage
/cast Slam
/stopcasting
/cancelaura Inner Rage
/cancelaura Inner Rage
Hi i saw this particular section and did some experimenting myself here is what i am using in the first macro apply Inner rage and casting Slam after the bloodsurge proc.(only 1 button press required)

#showtooltip Slam
/cast Inner Rage
/cast Slam
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

The 2nd macro i have incorporated with Bloodthirst also only 1 button press.

#showtooltip bloodthirst
/use 13
/use 14
/cancelaura Inner Rage
/stopcasting
/cast blood fury
/cast Bloodthirst
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

I tested them both after the proc inner rage buff is applied then once i hit Bloodthirst it cancels the inner rage buff. I also use tellmewhen to monitor the bloodsurge proc because when i macro'ed slam the proc stopped showing even though the #showtooltip is there. Hope this helps

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Old 01/09/11, 7:40 AM   #281
Polgaria
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
After reading all this I am a bit confused. Most are saying that the mastery stat for us is rubbish and not worth looking at because it only buffs one ability "raging blow". Now here's what confuses me.

The mastery stat says "Unshackled Fury Increases the benefit of abilities that cause or require you to be enraged by 37.6%." I understand benefit to mean dps gain because if I take of an item with lots of mastery the weapon damage% of raging blow decreases. It's the "cause or require" that has my attention.

The enrage talent states "Your melee hits have a 9% chance to Enrage you, giving you a 10% damage bonus for 9 sec." so I take it that mastery with the enrage talent increases all your white melee hits as well as raging blow. For me this seems like a huge dps boost with my melee white hits allways being in the top of my dps breakdown.

So the question is sorta 3 parts, am I a fool who has misread/misunderstood the tooltips ? Am I right and peeps have not realized it yet ? Have we all read and understood it but i think a white dps boost is more important than it is ?

what do you think ?

Last edited by Polgaria : 01/10/11 at 5:28 PM.

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Old 01/09/11, 9:37 AM   #282
Shha
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Scilla
We all understand the tooltips. However its a % buff on top of lets say 60% uptime ability increasing dmg by 10%. Mastery doesnt give us 37% more white damage it gives us 2.2 % more white damage. Thats the base 8 mastery we have. In comparison 8% crit (same budget) would give us over 10% more autoswing damage (because of deep wounds). Thats over 4 times bigger impact. Mastery of course affects other stuff, whcih ends up making it around 0.4-0.5 of crit. Still is leaps and bounds weakest stat we have.

Only semi worthwhile use of mastery i found is using mark of khadros from grim batol just before Deathwish - the mastery bonus you have when activating DW, actually lasts full 30 sec of its duration. Considering the trinket also has STR stat on it, it makes it somewhat attractive. Passive mastery however is useless to the point, where warriors only get one mastery piece (because to get 4 piece t11 we have to get gloves/pants and they have it), and completely ignore other mastery items, no matter how good they could be otherwise.

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Old 01/09/11, 7:25 PM   #283
Stonestrike
Glass Joe
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Area 52
Am I dumb, probably reading things wrong, but Enrage increases all damage by 10%(affected by Mastery)?

Anyway, I crunched the #'s using a mediocre atramades log with HS at 20.5% of my Damage and RB at 11.9%, and I found this HS nerf/Mastery buff would be about a 1.5% net dps loss, depending a bit on the amount of mastery you currently have.

I included these things into my calculations, I might of forgot something,

-HS dmg nerf by 20%

-War Academy change

-Mastery buff by to 5.6% from 4.7%

* This Mastery calculation included Raging Blow, Death Wish and our Enrage effect.

I could not however calculate the stacking effect/bonus of buffs you would use with Death Wish, as well as the Colossus Smash up-time during Death Wish.

Due to the Enrage effect I see mastery self scaling better as our other stats rise (as we saw in very late ICC). And been more dependent on Raging Blow, our normal stat weight isn't close to changing (Hit>Crit>Haste>Mastery) because we need to improve the amount of those 3 "rage stats" to make Mastery even worth noticing.

Edit: Forgot to list the War Academy change, however it was included in my calculations.

Last edited by Stonestrike : 01/11/11 at 2:17 PM.

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Old 01/10/11, 12:03 PM   #284
Ronninn
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Kael'thas
Originally Posted by Shha View Post
Only semi worthwhile use of mastery i found is using mark of khadros from grim batol just before Deathwish - the mastery bonus you have when activating DW, actually lasts full 30 sec of its duration. Considering the trinket also has STR stat on it, it makes it somewhat attractive. Passive mastery however is useless to the point, where warriors only get one mastery piece (because to get 4 piece t11 we have to get gloves/pants and they have it), and completely ignore other mastery items, no matter how good they could be otherwise.
If the damage bonus to Deathwish is calculated once after using the trinket, then it stands to reason that you could hit the Mark of Khadros 15 seconds before you apply your Deathwish and then potentially benefit from mastery for a full 45 seconds making this a very interesting trinket (assuming enrage uptime before deathwish). I'll test on the training dummies and post results when I get home from work.

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Old 01/10/11, 7:45 PM   #285
Shha
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Scilla
Well partially yes. Activating it 15 sec before deathwish means that you will get :

- around 3% more damage assuming Enrage is up.
- around 40% more RB damage for 15 sec of the pre-DW time

vs if you activate it during DW

- 40% more RB damage for 15 sec of DW.

Final impact might wary. IF you have 100% enrage time before DW, its a pretty clear DPS gain (although again - not sure how enrage itself coexists with trinket - possibly it will only affect reapplied enrage). While impact on RB will be still lower, overall 3% dmg for 15 seconds is good. However if you dont get enrage up, you definitely lose dps since all you will increase is RB damage (which is less then similiar increase during DW). Finally if you dont get enraged, and your berserker rage is down, you might gain completely nothing from using the trinket - as neither enrage nor RB will be affected.

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