Fury DPS: 4.0 and Cataclysm - Page 20

TidelWave · 01/12/11, 10:11 AM

- A socket has been added to all crafted epic armor pieces that did not already have one

This will make the Elementium Girdle of Pain much more attractive than the Belt of the Ferocious Wolf.

Kaubel · 01/12/11, 10:24 AM

If there are any dumbshits left who think it's OK to make a post that has nothing in it but patch notes, send me a PM now so I can ban you for the rest of the week.

irradicator · 01/12/11, 10:59 AM

Ahh, yes a nice upgrade for the belts

On another note, I recently acquired a "Fury of Angerforge" from the BWD trash and I have been very fascinated over the mechanics of this trinket.
After doing a little testing, I notice that the Stacking seems to have a 10 second ICD, which means that there is always only a 5 seconds alotment to gain another stack. So on this basis it would take roughly 45 seconds to gather the use effect. There is a 2 minute CD which begins of course when the trinket is popped and lasting it's 20 second duration, by the end of the CD it is possible to have attained 3 stacks and have a remaining 1 minute and 40 seconds on the CD, at on the extra 15 seconds to get the 5 stacks and it has a 1 minute 25 second CD remaining. Now the duration of these stacks once at 5 may be reset however, still within the 5 second time frame previously mentioned so this means that one would have to reset the duration 6 times within the fight which to be personally honest seems rather hefty. So I say what do you all think of this trinket?

Valtiel · 01/12/11, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by irradicator

Ahh, yes a nice upgrade for the belts

On another note, I recently acquired a "Fury of Angerforge" from the BWD trash and I have been very fascinated over the mechanics of this trinket.
After doing a little testing, I notice that the Stacking seems to have a 10 second ICD, which means that there is always only a 5 seconds alotment to gain another stack. So on this basis it would take roughly 45 seconds to gather the use effect. There is a 2 minute CD which begins of course when the trinket is popped and lasting it's 20 second duration, by the end of the CD it is possible to have attained 3 stacks and have a remaining 1 minute and 40 seconds on the CD, at on the extra 15 seconds to get the 5 stacks and it has a 1 minute 25 second CD remaining. Now the duration of these stacks once at 5 may be reset however, still within the 5 second time frame previously mentioned so this means that one would have to reset the duration 6 times within the fight which to be personally honest seems rather hefty. So I say what do you all think of this trinket?

There's an excellent trinket analysis post in the Warrior Quick Questions sticky, you may want to check it. In short, until the stacking speed is buffed (as it is on the PTR) it's a gimped trinket. The problem isn't really that of being unable to use it every 2 minutes (you are) it's that unless you enter a fight with 5 stacks you'll have delay on usage. And it's also generally a pain to synch.

Morsexy · 01/12/11, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by irradicator

Ahh, yes a nice upgrade for the belts

On another note, I recently acquired a "Fury of Angerforge" from the BWD trash and I have been very fascinated over the mechanics of this trinket.
After doing a little testing, I notice that the Stacking seems to have a 10 second ICD, which means that there is always only a 5 seconds alotment to gain another stack. So on this basis it would take roughly 45 seconds to gather the use effect. There is a 2 minute CD which begins of course when the trinket is popped and lasting it's 20 second duration, by the end of the CD it is possible to have attained 3 stacks and have a remaining 1 minute and 40 seconds on the CD, at on the extra 15 seconds to get the 5 stacks and it has a 1 minute 25 second CD remaining. Now the duration of these stacks once at 5 may be reset however, still within the 5 second time frame previously mentioned so this means that one would have to reset the duration 6 times within the fight which to be personally honest seems rather hefty. So I say what do you all think of this trinket?

If you don't need expertise, this and the valor trinket should be our best normal trinkets. While it is a huge pain in the ass to stack, and I've personally had a stack fall during heroism clearly showing why they're fixing the trinket in the next patch, I feel a trinket you click will always net you the best DPS. The trinket and your 2nd Deathwish should line up, and from there whatever boss you're on should be nearly dead by the time those cooldowns come back up and can be used accordingly.

Shha · 01/13/11, 7:04 AM

Edit: I made some mistakes in testing on PTR due to limited time. Now new results with more in-depth testing.

Heroic strike TOOLTIP might have been buffed. But actual damage is exactly where *Blizzard* not MMO patch notes put it. Its 80% of what it is on live without War academy, and when comparing with war academy talent its 69% of live value.

So dont bother with the misinforming information - heroic strike WAS indeed nerfed as announced.

Initial testing shows that damage is really shifted around. Granted it was on a dummy , so heroic strike usage is lowered (since we get less rage, and thats where its from), but it also used a high hit setup , which will be replaced with more STR/crit oriented one in patch.

Melee ~29% dmg
Bloodthirst ~27% dmg (some attempts above melee)
Raging Blow ~19% dmg (but the spread is HUGE here - some runs was as low as 14%, some as high as 26% giving BT run for its money - that would indicate that with slowly increasing enrage time due to higher flurr/hit etc in higher tiers, RB will creep up)
Heroic Strike ~12% dmg

Other skill changes :

Raging blow at 9.71 mastery, including all the changes to mastery and skill itself, went up by 61%.
Bloodthirst went up by exactly 30% mentioned by blizzard.

Overall my dps seemed about same, but way more random. Not only sometimes you simply cant keep enrage up to not waste raging blows, but also crits on raging blow have directly visible impact on dps. Just to put it in perspective - self buffed crits on a dummy from raging blow during deathwish were in realm of 85-90k dmg (combined from both hands of course). Such huge damage move tends to make our dps a bit more RNG based.

Shha · 01/13/11, 4:18 PM

Raging blow with 20 mastery (not rating), equal to 112% bonus will hit for 145%*1.15(war academy)*212%= 363% of weapon damage.

Skell · 01/14/11, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Runtime

The heroic strike reversion i was talking about was when they changed the AP scaling from 75% ap to 93% but im pretty sure they implemented that.

I'm inclined to think that Heroic Strike only had its tooltip updated somehow. While it does display higher damage on the PTR compared to live (that's where mmo-champion got their "buff") it deals less damage. The 20% nerf to HS stated by blizzard is true.

Runtime · 01/14/11, 3:09 PM

I was under the impression that they removed the talent buffing heroic strike and nerfed the ability by 20% and then they thought together the nerfs were a bit too much and brought it up a little. You could be right though.

Deathwing · 01/14/11, 4:09 PM

There was testing done in this thread or the Arms thread, Skell is right.

Also, the tool most of us have been using to simulate dps(simcraft), has actually been using a dps profile that has 3/3 DW and 2/3 Incite. This was a bit hard to figure out because URL it uses doesn't exist exactly(but the profile still works?!?!). Maybe this was news to other people, but I didn't figure it out today until I saw runtime's parses and figured we should switch to 3/3 DW next patch.

After rerunning simcraft with wowhead talent profile, it seems 3/3 DW is better now anyway(it's about equal in my current gear, 3/3 DW scales better). Which makes me wonder, where did we come up with the math that 3/3 Incite was better in the first place?

Deathstalker · 01/14/11, 6:09 PM

I was testing fury rotations with Inner Rage an without it. To see its effect on damage changes to warrior spells. I noticed that Deep wounds damage is not taking into effect Inner Rage buff to spell damage. Has anyone else noticed.

This is Deep Wounds without Inner Rage Use

This is Deep Wounds with Inner Rage Use

Has anyone else noticed this or am i incorrect about Deep Wounds not taking into account Inner Rage.

dedmonwakeen · 01/14/11, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

There was testing done in this thread or the Arms thread, Skell is right.

Also, the tool most of us have been using to simulate dps(simcraft), has actually been using a dps profile that has 3/3 DW and 2/3 Incite. This was a bit hard to figure out because URL it uses doesn't exist exactly(but the profile still works?!?!). Maybe this was news to other people, but I didn't figure it out today until I saw runtime's parses and figured we should switch to 3/3 DW next patch.

After rerunning simcraft with wowhead talent profile, it seems 3/3 DW is better now anyway(it's about equal in my current gear, 3/3 DW scales better). Which makes me wonder, where did we come up with the math that 3/3 Incite was better in the first place?

Please send me preferred wowhead talent strings and I will get our profiles updated ASAP.

Deathwing · 01/15/11, 1:33 AM

Well, the problem is that I think 3/3 Incite is better/equal to 3/3 DW for most people right now. I know for my gear it's pretty much even. For TG, DW will scale ahead sooner. Anyway, here's the current spec most people are using(3/3 Incite)

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Here's the 3/3 DW:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Obviously SMF is going to have a different URL. My suggestion would be to wait for 4.0.6 to change the profiles. That will definitely put 3/3 DW ahead of 3/3 Incite for most gears.

Some more patch note changes:

In addition to its current effects, Bloodsurge now also causes the next Slam to deal 20% more damage.
Slam weapon damage percent (at level 80+) has been increased from 125% to 145%.
Raging Blow weapon damage percent (at level 80+) has been increased from 110% to 120%.

Slight nerf to the buff TG was getting, which was probably needed. But the slam buff might make up for it. And even better buff for SMF. I don't know if that's enough to close the gap between SMF and TG, which I feel currently is about 10%.

Shha · 01/15/11, 3:07 AM

Its not a slight nerf, its basically putting us back on live levels i feel. Its a 20% reduction for a skill that does 25+% of our dmg (once reforged/regemmed). We are talking about a global 5% damage nerf, which is rather large. Slam damage contribution is very small -basically its less then 15% of Bloodthirst (which makes sense since it procs 3 times per 10 BT, and hits for half the damage). We are talking about a 4-5% damage contribution skill that gets buffed by 40% approximately - meaning a 1.6-2.0% boost.

Overall the change is in the right direction - Raging blow critting for 60k MH on a boss dummy (+35k OH) would definitely cause outrage in pvp. However Id say slam could be buffed a bit more. Even with 40% buff its getting it will hit for only around 70% of BT damage, and 45% of nerfed RB. Id hope for it to at least get up to "extra BT" levels.

As for SMF, its still behind, heroic strike nerf was a biggest blow to the spec, and there is no direct way of compensating. Problem is , there is no obvious way to make Raging Blow more attractive for SMF - maybe they need to give SMF a straight damage buff tied to RB.

Moophisto · 01/17/11, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Shha

Its not a slight nerf, its basically putting us back on live levels i feel. Its a 20% reduction for a skill that does 25+% of our dmg (once reforged/regemmed). We are talking about a global 5% damage nerf, which is rather large. Slam damage contribution is very small -basically its less then 15% of Bloodthirst (which makes sense since it procs 3 times per 10 BT, and hits for half the damage). We are talking about a 4-5% damage contribution skill that gets buffed by 40% approximately - meaning a 1.6-2.0% boost.

Overall the change is in the right direction - Raging blow critting for 60k MH on a boss dummy (+35k OH) would definitely cause outrage in pvp. However Id say slam could be buffed a bit more. Even with 40% buff its getting it will hit for only around 70% of BT damage, and 45% of nerfed RB. Id hope for it to at least get up to "extra BT" levels.

As for SMF, its still behind, heroic strike nerf was a biggest blow to the spec, and there is no direct way of compensating. Problem is , there is no obvious way to make Raging Blow more attractive for SMF - maybe they need to give SMF a straight damage buff tied to RB.

HS is receiving more than a 20 percent nerf. Factoring in the change to War Academy its more like a 30.xx percent nerf.

I'm not sure where you're getting a 40 percent buff to Slam. Its a 20 percent buff to the base ability, and a second and separate 20 percent bonus when you use it with Bloodsurge. Given that Slam should only be used with Bloodsurge, that works out to a 44 percent buff.

The HS changes are a big nerf to SMF, there's no doubt. However, BT is being buffed 30 percent, which will benefit SMF more than TG. Additionally, the Slam changes benefit SMF more than it does TG as well.

Further, the Recklessness change should wind up being an increase across the board, Not so sure on the inner rage change though - it's going to keep us from abusing it with Bloodsurge, and there are probably limited situations at the moment were we can actually spam HS's (or cleaves) on a 1.5 second cooldown for 15 seconds to take full advantage of it.