Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Warriors

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11/29/11, 9:45 AM   #916
Zodiac2049
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Malfurion
Originally Posted by landsoul View Post
So... Has anyone ever revisited Avalanche?

Any thoughts?
over a 6 minute fight, at least in my gear, a MH landslide is worth about 900dps in your spreadsheet. When inputting my raid spell crit (30%) and my average deep wounds mh input (8704 per crit), the average damage from a given Avalanche proc would be ~3455 damage, meaning that in order for avalanche to equal landslide it would have to proc ~94 times over 6 minutes.

As it stands in your spreadsheet, when changing avalanche to 5ppm (current version has it set to 2ppm), it gives me a result of ~183 procs per 6 minutes, and that's not including procs from deep wounds ticks (at least as far as I can tell from looking at the spreadsheet). When I account for additional deep wounds damage due to crits (55.11 crits over 6min duration) it appears a MH avalanche is worth ~1667dps, mostly as a result of the gained deep wounds damage which was worth 1329.7dps.

I haven't messed around in-game with avalanche in ages, but if it really does proc deep wounds, then it certainly seems like it would be better than landslide.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/11, 10:59 AM   #917
Otori
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Azralon
One issue I see is that, on fights like Baleroc or where you have no downtime on boss, DW uptime is already 95%+, so there would be no room for the damage gains discussed above.

The other problem, which makes the initial numbers misleading, is that DW works a lot like Ignite, meaning that a reapplication of it will add to the DW "pool", but this also means it's subject to "Ignite" munching (some ticks missing in certain occasions, further clarification can be found here). So, if you account for this phenomenon, specially considering DW ticks every second, the actual numbers will be much lower and possibly below the benefit of Landslide.
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to calculate the effects of Ignite Munching for DW.

Last edited by Otori : 11/29/11 at 12:55 PM.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/11, 11:01 AM   #918
Grimmzorn
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Blackrock (EU)
Avalanche does indeed proc deep wounds. You can see it in the screenshots below:
I had a normal melee crit (DW ticking for ~590). After the Avalanche crits, the following deepwounds are ticking for ~1010. Note: there are NO further melee crits that could have upped the deepwounds damage.

Avalanche/dw proc - Imgur

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/29/11, 12:43 PM   #919
Auron
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Malfurion
Rawr uses .08 as its base reduction for ignite, so even if the munched value greatly exceeds that for DW it still should not surpass the ~1667 value Dave came up with if thats correct

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/11, 9:41 AM   #920
Zodiac2049
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Malfurion
Originally Posted by Auron View Post
the ~1667 value Dave came up with if thats correct
Apparently I am retarded and don't understand the difference between input and output. In the original math I didn't multiply the DW input value by 0.48, so that number is incorrect.

Using the damage values from this parse and assuming the crit chance is 25% (down from 30% in my original math)
the average damage you gain from a proc is 610*0.75 + (935 + (8704*0.48))*0.25 = 1735.73; With that new value, the number of procs needed for it to equal landslide (assuming it's still worth 890 dps over an 6min fight) is (890*360)/1735.73 = 184.59 procs. Interestingly enough, landsouls spreadsheet suggests that over a 6 minute fight, I would expect to see 182.6 procs. However, as mentioned in my previous post, as far as I can tell the spreadsheet is not calculating procs from deep wounds ticks, so the actual number of expected procs would be higher.

It's also worth noting that SMF should gain more from avalanche due to having more hits land per second than TG, meaning it should get more procs. In AoE situations, while I can't back this up with any spreadsheet math, I would think that the value of avalanche would scale much better than landslide, as I was seeing up to 6 simultaneous procs from a single whirlwind during trash last night

Assuming I didn't screw up the math yet again, I think the TL;DR version of all of this is that avalanche has the potential to be better, but not by a whole lot.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/11, 9:55 AM   #921
Eetabeetay
Von Kaiser
 
Pandaren Warrior
 
Destromath
I couldn't find whether Landslide was affected by Blessing of Might or not. If it is, then you need to take into account the new 20% version.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/11, 12:15 PM   #922
Emmortal_
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
What are the thoughts on this new inner rage 2pc vs. old fire proc 4pc? Worthy upgrade, or better to wait for new 4pc?

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/11, 12:51 PM   #923
Ran Newman
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Terokkar (EU)
It increase your HS dmg (since you will never be capped on HS CD anyway, you are only capped by rage) by 33% for 50% of the time (in worst case, dumbest auto-use secenrio). It's a must have.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12/01/11, 12:14 AM   #924
Jakesterwars
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Blackrock
I recently obtained [Backbreaker Spaulders] and when I gemmed/enchanted/reforged them, I noticed I lost weapon dps but still gained weapon damage and attack power over my heroic t12 shoulders. Any clue why or is this what I should be expecting with that swap?

-Edit-

By the way, I meant to link the normal shoulders, but you get the point.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12/01/11, 12:36 AM   #925
Slambo
Glass Joe
 
Human Warrior
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Jakesterwars View Post
I recently obtained [Backbreaker Spaulders] and when I gemmed/enchanted/reforged them, I noticed I lost weapon dps but still gained weapon damage and attack power over my heroic t12 shoulders. Any clue why or is this what I should be expecting with that swap?

-Edit-

By the way, I meant to link the normal shoulders, but you get the point.
haste

Canada Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12/01/11, 2:10 AM   #926
Jakesterwars
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Slambo View Post
haste
I figured as much. That was the only thing that came to mind, but I wasn't 100% sure. Thanks.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12/01/11, 5:53 AM   #927
Blacky1128
Glass Joe
 
Blackyfury
Orc Warrior
 
Non-US/EU Server
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

there are all my wol for randon DS
our raid do have 30% bleeding damage increase debuff on boss, but my deep wound damage only like 8%~10% of all damage out. In 4.2. its like 16% more, so i do think theres something changed. may be the 40% melee damage increase inflenced deep wound in 4.2 but not influenced in 4.3?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12/01/11, 7:40 AM   #928
neekko
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Sylvanas (EU)
I noticed the same, my dw were 9.9% of dmg at a fight with 99% uptime. Until we get some confirmation whether this is a bug or it was an intentional stealth nerf that didn't make the notes we can't be sure about anything.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12/01/11, 10:30 AM   #929
Moophisto
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Blacky1128 View Post
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

there are all my wol for randon DS
our raid do have 30% bleeding damage increase debuff on boss, but my deep wound damage only like 8%~10% of all damage out. In 4.2. its like 16% more, so i do think theres something changed. may be the 40% melee damage increase inflenced deep wound in 4.2 but not influenced in 4.3?
It was likely double dipping before from our 5 percent increased physical damage from spec. As in 5 percent weapon damage and then an additional 5 percent applied to the ticks. Thus, when they took way the 5 percent it disproportionately affected Deep Wounds.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12/01/11, 10:45 AM   #930
neekko
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Sylvanas (EU)
Your logic is bad.Really really bad.

First of all they fixed dw double dipping since early 3.0. But even if they hadn't done it, the 5% double dipping change would make 16% 15.2% not 9%. To make a change from 16% to 9% you need a 44% decrease or to put it in an other way, if we consider 9% the dmg dw should have been doing then with some mysterious way it was being increased by 77.7%.

In any case warriors seem to be underperforming atm.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Warriors

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fury Maks Class Mechanics 1 04/04/07 5:48 PM
12/39 Fury worth it? haz313 The Dung Heap 1 09/14/06 3:54 AM
Please prove fury > ms for pve dps xpriest Public Discussion 50 08/27/06 8:32 PM
Trying out DW Fury in the near future... Kanan Public Discussion 7 08/09/06 6:04 PM