Fury DPS: 4.0 and Cataclysm - Page 68

cutterx2202 · 01/08/12, 2:00 PM

Note, the theory below is proved here using these calculations.

Based on a recent hunch and somewhat encouraged by some LFRs, which led to some dummy testing, here's my theory:

-You will only get minimal gains in tentacle procs if using same versions of Gurth in both hands.
-You will maximize tentacle procs by using two different versions of Gurth.

My reasoning? Specials that may proc the sword from either hand roll the dice once for the same spell. If the spell is different (different tentacles), then each spell must have its own roll. So you have two chances to proc a generic tentacle from one of those specials instead of one. According to the post below, those abilities are BT, HS, Cleave, TC, HL. Of course my theory is in no way substantiated yet, but I hope to do some testing soon.

If anyone's tested this already, please stop me from wasting a few hours.

Method #1, Test #1
Boss Raid dummy
(403 Gurth MH, 390 Gurth OH. 0% haste, 13.44% hit, 24.07% crit with BS up but w/o VoA stacked yet.)
Full normal Fury rotation minus death wish and recklessness.
Total Damage: 52,635,338
Tentacle damage: 8,383,558 (16%)

Method #1, Test #2 (waiting on second LFR gurth. If you have 2 versions of the same Gurth, don't hesitate to help out.)

*edit: After doing 52million damage to the raid dummy, it has occured to me that the more definitive way to go about this is to see if BT or HS can double proc a tentacle when you have two different versions of Gurth on. Likewise, use two of the same version of Gurth and show it can NOT double proc. (need mucho data).

Method #2, Test #1 (403 gurth + 390 Gurth. Using only bloodthirst on a focus macro and battle shout to get rage)
So far, 360 BTs, 13 TOO procs, but non were double proc yet. (Will need many more BTs) (Equal spread of lfr/normal tentacles so far)

Method #2, Test #2 (waiting on second LFR gurth. If you have 2 versions of the same Gurth, don't hesitate to help out.)

Another finding: My post considering Gurth in the offhand and will main-hand hits proc it. It is correct, but because I was using a weapon-based attack. Melee attacks that are -NOT- weapon-based, such as bloodthirst, -CAN- still proc a tentacle, regardless of what hand it is in, as long as Gurthalak is equipped.

So assuming random weapon in mainhand, gurth in offhand.

Bloodthirst? Yes.
Heroic Strike? Yes.
Cleave? Yes.
Slam? No.
Raging Blow? Offhand hit can proc it, main hand can't.
Whirlwind? Same as Raging Blow. 1 roll per offhand hit, can proc multiple times from the same ability if it hits multiple times.
Colossus Smash? No.
Thunder Clap? Yes.
Heroic Leap? Yes.

Issue 985 - simulationcraft - Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps - World of Warcraft DPS Simulator - Google Project Hosting

redvendl · 01/09/12, 11:01 PM

Asked Landsoul what kind of test would help to determine Gurth's value in the OH and here is what he came up with and that I executed:

1000 BT gurth in OH
melee: 2444
Mind Flay Procs: 354 hit; 10 miss

500 RB Gurth in OH
Melee: 2634
Mind Flay Procs: 328 hit 8 miss

1000 Slam Gurth in OH
Melee: 899
Mind Flay Procs: 103 hit 5 miss

1000 heroic strike Gurth in OH
Melee: 1710
Mind Flay Procs: 142 hit 5 miss

504 RB dual wielding gurth
2670: melee
Mind Flay Procs: 546 hit 14 miss

I'll let the people who know how to interpret these numbers better than I do handle the math.

EDIT: When I say mindflay had X hit's that is also including crits. Also I will be redoing the 504 RB DW test as it looks like I had very good RNG. and I will be doing 1000 BT and adding 500 BT's to the test and doing it again for further accuracy. I'll get those new tests up soon.

cutterx2202 · 01/10/12, 1:33 AM

[Delete this post please - I answered my own question about the above post.]

matthewseidl · 01/10/12, 4:17 PM

Originally Posted by redvendl

Asked Landsoul what kind of test would help to determine Gurth's value in the OH and here is what he came up with and that I executed:

1000 BT gurth in OH
melee: 2444
Mind Flay Procs: 354 hit; 10 miss

When you say 'melee' above, is that attacks or hits+crits? If its Hits+crits, it seems like gurth is proccing less than I'd expect. If its just melee swings (i.e. including misses), then I suspect knowing the miss rate is important. I'm also assuming this is the number of melee swings with gurth, not total between MH+OH or something else.

redvendl · 01/10/12, 6:13 PM

Originally Posted by matthewseidl

When you say 'melee' above, is that attacks or hits+crits? If its Hits+crits, it seems like gurth is proccing less than I'd expect. If its just melee swings (i.e. including misses), then I suspect knowing the miss rate is important. I'm also assuming this is the number of melee swings with gurth, not total between MH+OH or something else.

Its only hits + crit. I didnt record the number of misses, didnt think about that. My hit % while doing this test was 12.08% (when dual wielding gurth it was 11.03%) so add ~15-16% miss rate over the course of the test to get the total melee swing number.

redvendl · 01/10/12, 10:19 PM

Redoing the dual wield gurth with 700 RB for greater accuracy:
3546 melee (hit + crit) and 544 melee miss
939 mindflay hit 31 miss

New 1500 BT test with dual wielding gurth
3646 melee (hit + crit) and 571 miss
939 mind flay 22 miss

Again, people who know how to analyze the numbers better than I can go to town.

Mong-Hakkar · 01/11/12, 6:23 AM

Both Gurth are normal? I was intrested in the theory that different versions of the swords in MH & OH cause more procs than the same version. What do u used to count the tentacle hits/miss? Recount?

redvendl · 01/11/12, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Mong-Hakkar

Both Gurth are normal? I was intrested in the theory that different versions of the swords in MH & OH cause more procs than the same version. What do u used to count the tentacle hits/miss? Recount?

Both are normal and I dont have a LFR version so someone else will have to take up that test. and yes i used recount.

Runtime · 01/11/12, 1:04 PM

The problem with your tests is that your melee swings can skew the results. What we really need to see is how the proc works on the Isolated ability. You can achieve this by turning your character sideways since the window you can auto attack a target is smaller than the window you can use special abilities.

Ran Newman · 01/11/12, 1:57 PM

I have done planty of those tests before to prove procs on OH from yellow abilties. You can have an opposite faction character attacking you to gain rage while an healer is healing you, making rage gain much easier.

cutterx2202 · 01/11/12, 10:17 PM

Interesting: While racking up bloodthirsts on focus target, the T13 4pc proc applied to my target (not the focus target that I hit with BT).

I don't think this has any relevance to any dps calculations, just an interesting tidbit for anyone that cares.

redvendl · 01/11/12, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ran Newman

I have done planty of those tests before to prove procs on OH from yellow abilties. You can have an opposite faction character attacking you to gain rage while an healer is healing you, making rage gain much easier.

Can you post the results of those tests?

Runtime · 01/12/12, 12:26 PM

You can also melee to get full rage, turn and hit the boss with the ability till your out of rage. You just have to keep track of the procs from auto attacks and remove them from your results.

landsoul · 01/12/12, 11:55 PM

Melee hits do not skew the results at all. We already know that melee procs a tentacle 2% of the time. Those procs from melee can be subtracted out of the total.

tjl1982 · 01/13/12, 2:27 PM

With a possibility of Gurthalak nerfs, is it time to take a second look at SMF? It seems to be the forgotten spec of Fury at the moment, while it's still pulling comparable numbers to TG with normal DS gear, and HM weapons drop off of farm boss (Morchok).