Arms DPS: 4.0 and Cataclysm - Page 34

Ssateneth · 12/06/11, 9:03 PM

After today's maintenance, SoO crits once again trigger deep wounds.

iddqd84 · 12/07/11, 2:33 AM

Originally Posted by Ssateneth

After today's maintenance, SoO crits once again trigger deep wounds.

This should once again heave mastery above haste, let's see, what a (new) version of Simcraft will tell now about statweights.

Kaljurei · 12/07/11, 4:07 AM

Originally Posted by Otori

It applies Colossus Smash directly. You can see that by the wowhead page on the 4pc bonus (trigger spell Colossus Smash), which also means that any way you use to keep track of your CS debuff normally will also show the proc effect, and the CS glyph will apply the sunder armor effect.

Maximazing CS uptime by saving SD procs or the cooldown itself is a huge part with the 4pc. Whilst on the PTR, I was saving MS as the last ability used within the CS debuff, so as not to waste the proc, though I have not idea if this is superior in terms of DPS, since prioritizing MS first means you could potentially fit two inside the CS.

I don't think that's even possible.

0.0 CS
1.5 MS
6.0 MS

The second MS will happen exactly after CS duration ends on the target. You can only achieve 2 MS inside one CS, if you have zero ping, or maybe not even then.

Thanks for clarifying that part on the 4pc bonus. That is very good news indeed, I was quite worried about how I was going to spare GCDs or Rage for extra CS.

Has anyone done any kind of BiS list for Arms 4.3 like how we have one in progress for TG?

Armsaun · 12/07/11, 6:47 AM

CS lasts 6 seconds, meaning that on a 1.5 second global you get 3 abilities afterwards. Ideally, would those be MS (to start the CD on the next one), OP, OP (assuming your rend ticks) if you time it perfectly, or would a slam in there hit harder than one of the OPs? Does haste lower the GCD enough to allow a fourth ability inside of CS? If so, I would assume the next best ability would be a slam, though not at the end because it would land late.

Luucem · 12/07/11, 9:41 AM

we have an update, and it is good news:

Warrior (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
Deep Wounds should now be correctly activated by critical hits from Opportunity Strike, Raging Blow, Heroic Leap, and Intercept.
Using Pummel, modified by Gag Order, will now Silence the target for 3 seconds in addition to locking out the spell school for 4 seconds.

So this should keep the value of Mastery regardless of what Simcraft says.

As for a BiS list you can check out mine, if you feel you disagree on any item let me know.

4.3 Arms PvE Guide - Forums - World of Warcraft

Kaljurei · 12/07/11, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Armsaun

CS lasts 6 seconds, meaning that on a 1.5 second global you get 3 abilities afterwards. Ideally, would those be MS (to start the CD on the next one), OP, OP (assuming your rend ticks) if you time it perfectly, or would a slam in there hit harder than one of the OPs? Does haste lower the GCD enough to allow a fourth ability inside of CS? If so, I would assume the next best ability would be a slam, though not at the end because it would land late.

Yes, assuming your rend ticks perfectly, it would be MS OP OP, otherwise MS OP Slam.

The amount of Haste required to lower the GCDs enough to allow a 4th ability inside of CS is high enough that we won't be able to achieve it, at least at the cost of sacrificing DPS by reducing Crit and Mastery. I don't know the exact amount however.

OP will always be better than Slam inside a CS or outside it. Reason being that OP almost always Crits, and hence is the best DPR move you have, outside of sub-20% phase.

I'll take a look at the BiS list when I can. If you're serious about making and updating it, then I would recommend making a new topic in these forums, like how a TG 4.3 BiS list is being maintained.

Has anyone done any theorycrafting on whether the 2pc T13 bonus is any good for us at all, outside of Bloodlust and Haste buff phases like Madness start of fight? I'm talking about replacing Slam with Heroic Strike during Inner Rage, although I find that I'll have very little supporters for this considering how hard Slam hits compared to Heroic Strike, even with the AP buff and considerably more Str this tier.

Runtime · 12/07/11, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by Kaljurei

The amount of Haste required to lower the GCDs enough to allow a 4th ability inside of CS is high enough that we won't be able to achieve it, at least at the cost of sacrificing DPS by reducing Crit and Mastery. I don't know the exact amount however.

Haste doen't lower the GCD of melee abilities. Only spells.

Kaljurei · 12/08/11, 6:03 PM

So I finally did first 4 bosses the first time as Arms with Gur'thalak. Logs as follows if anyone is interested. Arms is far from being the worst melee spec as far as these logs go.

Morchok : World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Zon'ozz : World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Yor'sahj : World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Hagara : World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

This was done without Stance Dancing however. Logs are not showing how much damage Gur'thalak proc did for some reason.

Possible theorycrafting needs to be done on the use of Bladestorm glyph over Slam glyph on Yor'sahj. There were a few times were I was unable to Bladestorm as soon as the adds got stacked up, had to wait about 10 seconds or so.

Arqentum · 12/08/11, 6:57 PM

Kaljurei

Please, post your Ultraxion logs with Gur'thalak asap.

From what I see right now - worse than I've expected.
(Ultraxion log will tell for sure)

Galushi · 12/08/11, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kaljurei

So I finally did first 4 bosses the first time as Arms with Gur'thalak. Logs as follows if anyone is interested. Arms is far from being the worst melee spec as far as these logs go.

Morchok : World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Zon'ozz : World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Yor'sahj : World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Hagara : World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

This was done without Stance Dancing however. Logs are not showing how much damage Gur'thalak proc did for some reason.

Possible theorycrafting needs to be done on the use of Bladestorm glyph over Slam glyph on Yor'sahj. There were a few times were I was unable to Bladestorm as soon as the adds got stacked up, had to wait about 10 seconds or so.

On the raid list of Damage done, if you click the down arrow next to your name, to show pets, you can see your tentacle did about 5k on Zon-ozz. ~10% of your dmg. Not Bad.

Also thank you for showing good Arms logs, my brother.

HouseCaracal · 12/09/11, 2:09 AM

Similarly to the discussion in the fury dps thread, it's possible to fit 4 gcd into a CS, as long as you don't use ms immediately when its off cd and the last ability cannot be slam due to its 0.5 sec cast time.

So MS CS Slam Slam MS OP would work.

Any thoughts on how this should change our rotation?

Luucem · 12/09/11, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Arqentum

Kaljurei

Please, post your Ultraxion logs with Gur'thalak asap.

From what I see right now - worse than I've expected.
(Ultraxion log will tell for sure)

it did 10% of his dps on zonozz. Were you expecting it to do more? (im not being sarcastic just curious)

Luucem · 12/09/11, 10:37 AM

interesting aspects of the log:

[22:51:44.773] Kaljurei Fiery Attack Warlord Zon'ozz *22442*
[22:51:44.798] Kaljurei summons Tentacle of the Old Ones with Summon Tentacle of the Old Ones

So 4 piece can summon them.

[22:08:09.140] Kaljurei Opportunity Strike Yor'sahj the Unsleeping 7811
[22:08:09.218] Kaljurei Deep Wounds Yor'sahj the Unsleeping 2446
[22:08:09.546] Kaljurei summons Tentacle of the Old Ones with Summon Tentacle of the Old Ones

Opportunity Strike can also make them proc.

He also summons 4 while using bladestorm at Yorshaj.

[22:18:09.790] Kaljurei Heroic Strike Morchok 12678
[22:18:09.830] Kaljurei Rend Morchok 4069
[22:18:10.180] Kaljurei summons Tentacle of the Old Ones with Summon Tentacle of the Old Ones

Rend MIGHT have procced the tentacle on Morchok. And it is confirmed off the Hagara log:

[22:23:24.781] Kaljurei Rend Bound Lightning Elemental 3038
[22:23:25.187] Kaljurei summons Tentacle of the Old Ones with Summon Tentacle of the Old Ones

I particularly like the fact that rend can procc it. Thank you for the log sir.

Edit: ill leave the 4 piece statement as unsure. From what i saw on the logs the tentacle was proccing off an attack made 0.4 seconds before it spawned. So it would seem it was not the Fiery Attack but the Mortal Strike that procced it. Either way its some good solid data

Kaljurei · 12/09/11, 11:01 AM

I haven't got Ultraxion logs yet because we were attempting Heroic Morchok all through Wednesday and Thursday night. I'll get you logs on Monday night. I'll try to do a Raid Finder run as well, just to see the Tentacle procs, not as a measure of potential dps capable. I do need to replace trinkets and get more tier pieces if possible anyway.

I'm not entirely sure about Fiery Attack proccing it, but when I looked in Wowhead, it's range was listed as 100 yds, which means it's probably not a Melee Attack and hence incapable of proccing a Tentacle?

About the 4.3 Arms BiS list, The Back, Neck and Belt are VP items and therefore do not have a Heroic upgrade. The Back and the Neck from VP items should be BiS in Heroic content as well.

Also, Runescriven Demon Collar - Item - World of Warcraft is somewhat better than the normal Demonbone Waistguard. 67 Str+50 Mastery+87 Crit(Reforged from Haste)>221 Crit.

Ring of Torn Flesh is also a Vendor Item and does not possess its Heroic Upgrade. Breathstealer Band - Item - World of Warcraft should be its replacement.

Rest is all good. Hopefully, chardev will be able to update these items soon and we can come up with an optimal reforging solution to see how much of each stat we get. I don't trust Simcraft one bit on this.

Oh and guys, you can just go and check any log from WoL. There are several ranked Arms Warriors above me, and I think quite a few of them use Gur'thalak, at the very least.

Arqentum · 12/09/11, 5:48 PM

Valor vs Heroic comparison for those who wonder.

Comparing [Runescriven Demon Collar] with [Demonbone Waistguard]

Comparing [Breathstealer Band] with [Ring of Torn Flesh]

Originally Posted by Luucem

it did 10% of his dps on zonozz. Were you expecting it to do more? (im not being sarcastic just curious)

Yep. Maybe my expectations is too high =\