[Cataclysm] Protection Warrior - Page 24

Runtime · 05/31/11, 7:54 AM

Thunderclap adds 15 seconds to the rend duration. If that happens to be more than 18 seconds than it will be 15 second duration + time till next tick. Pretty much what happened was

0.0 Rend (15s duration left)
1.5 Tclap (17.5s) application tick
3.0 Rend tick
6.0 Rend tick
9,12,15,18 Rend Ticks

That totals to 8 ticks.

Edwardian · 06/17/11, 5:09 AM

Originally Posted by Mokkhyr

kukulza: Thanks! According to your values the gem does not work as the description suggests, as it should at least buff the block value to 31,5% (0.3*1.05). Instead, it seems to be 31,05%.

I wondered how strong it is compared to the "good old" Austere Shadowspirit Diamond. (T11 provides ~36k armor)

Regular hit
Damage taken with Eternal Shadowspirit Diamond: 0.9 * (1 - 36000 / (36000 + 2167.5 * 88 - 158167.5)) = 0.427507382
Damage taken with Austere Shadowspirit Diamond: 0.9 * (1 - 36000 * 1.02 / (36000 * 1.02 + 2167.5 * 88 - 158167.5)) = 0.423065266

Block
Damage taken with Eternal Shadowspirit Diamond: 0.427507382 * (1 - 0.3105) = 0.294766339
Damage taken with Austere Shadowspirit Diamond: 0.423065266 * (1 - 0.3) = 0.296145686

Crit block
Damage taken with Eternal Shadowspirit Diamond: 0.427507382 * (1 - 0.621) = 0.162025297
Damage taken with Austere Shadowspirit Diamond: 0.423065266 * (1 - 0.6) = 0.169226106

Regarding crit block, the 0.621 value is not confirmed yet. It's just my assumption.

I did some napkin math based on these values & my current gear stats (1600 mastery rating) and the Eternal one seems to come out ahead in terms of overall damage mitigation. Unfortunately I'm not capable of doing the proper math factoring in Shield Block and HtL, so feedback is greatly appreciated.

I'm just curious if anyone else can elaborate mathematically on this.
Being Heroic Geared now I've switched to the SB Gem, assuming that the armor gem's value increases with your armor and decreases with the level of the enemies, while the block gem's value increases with your block chances and your total avoidance.

Is this true? I've seen some math formula's floating around but they seem to be extremely complicated. I'm not able to solve complex algebra - I've got my degrees in other subjects! !
What do you all think?

edit:
the formula I've seen floating around is:
DRavg = 1 - (1 - a)*(1 - d - v*(2c + b)), where
a is your armor DR,
b is your block chances (excluding crit blocks),
c is your crit block chances (for warriors),
d is your parry+dodge+miss chances,
v is your block value.

VS.

DRblock = ((2c + b)*(V - v)) / (1 - d - v*(2c + b)), where
b is your block chances (excluding crit blocks),
c is your crit block chances (for warriors),
d is your parry+dodge+miss chances,
v is your block value (without the gem),
V is your block value with the gem.

How does this stack up VS https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...CLPP7OsD#gid=0

kahalm · 06/17/11, 5:47 AM

there is a much never version of the spreadsheet, in the old one where some mistakes (but the results mostly stay the same)
spreadsheet v0.20

So Eternal scales very well with avoidance (especially mastery) and is almost always ahead of the armor one. There might be one reason to chose the Austere to minimize the damage of fully unmitigated hits, but if that is reasonable or not is hard to proof.

kahalm · 06/18/11, 12:30 PM

New version with the changes for patch 4.2 (no more dodge from agi, more parry from strength), if someone has any sugestions for new features or bugs please sent me a pm.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...thkey=CL3v1dkJ

P.s. your stats will change after the patch, to get the 'real' value now take your (str/0.25)*0.27 and add this value to your parryrating.

Zwolf92 · 06/22/11, 12:30 AM

Curious if anyone looked at the new tanking gear for 4.2 yet. I made a quick list of all the Firelands gear, also including the craftables and the dailies/rep gear. Once again it looks like Warriors will have to choose between the 4-pc bonus and much better itemized gear.

Also, I'm not sure if anyone mentioned but they changed the 4-pc slightly. The 6% parry rating bonus will activate -after- your shield block has ended now.

2shared - download Tank gear.txt

Here's the little notepad list I made. Numbers may not be exactly perfect, as stats on gear are being changed occasionally.

Personally, I think the BiS option would be to use the tier gloves and legs, chest and helm, if you wanted to go for the 4-pc. The shoulders that drop off Ragnaros are of a higher item level (391), and would obviously have more stats on them, even if they aren't itemized correctly.

Serivola · 06/22/11, 6:24 AM

No, when looking for CTC tier legs, gloves and shoulders are the best options anyways while the difference between the tier chest and the Beth'tilac one is smaller than between tier head and Baleroc one so you probably take the 4pT12 with nonset head.

The question is: what to do after reaching 102,4% CTC?
1) stacking stamina by using non-mastery trinkets, gems and flask
2) looking for as less incoming damage as possible by trying to maximize pure avoidance
3) trying to reduce the chance to block uncritical by stacking mastery

Option 4 may be maximizing thread stats but it doesn't seem to be important. So which of the above reduces the chance to get into deadly situations more? I think 1) may be the winner because the survivability-gain (not the effective reduction of incoming damage) from 2) and 3) seems just minor.
If you say 1) is the way to go then you want to gear for as much CTC as possible while using stamina gems and so on... If you want to take the 4pT12 (whish is kind of weak if you are unhittable anyways) you will go with nonset head, otherwise tier legs and hands are the best options.

Following is a list of items ranked by their effective CTC gain (while on the left more stamina is taken as 2/3 more mastery and on the right stamina is ignored). So if you have already 102.4% CTC you should look on the left side while if you don't the right side is yours.

CTC including stamina	~%CTC	Stam	CTC only	~%CTC
Head:
[Helm of Blazing Glory]	4.06	734	[Helm of Blazing Glory]	4.06
[Greathelm of the Voracious Maw]	3.75	719	[Greathelm of the Voracious Maw]	3.88
[Faceguard of the Molten Giant]	3.12	764	[Daybreaker Helm]	3.73
[Helm of Blazing Glory]	3.58	656	[Dragon Bone Warhelm]	3.64
[Dragon Bone Warhelm]	3.56	623	[Helm of Blazing Glory]	3.58
[Daybreaker Helm]	3.73	578	[Greathelm of the Voracious Maw]	3.46
[Greathelm of the Voracious Maw]	3.33	641	[Daybreaker Helm]	3.31
[Faceguard of the Molten Giant]	2.76	686	[Faceguard of the Molten Giant]	3.29
Neck:
[Firebound Gorget]	2.60	384	[Firebound Gorget]	2.60
[Caelestrasz's Will]	2.27	359	[Firebound Gorget]	2.31
[Firebound Gorget]	2.31	341	[Caelestrasz's Will]	2.27
[Stoneheart Necklace]	2.21	341	[Stoneheart Necklace]	2.21
Shoulder:
[Pauldrons of Roaring Flame]	3.55	557	[Shoulderguards of the Molten Giant]	3.64
[Shoulderguards of the Molten Giant]	3.64	528	[Pauldrons of Roaring Flame]	3.55
[Pauldrons of Roaring Flame]	3.16	495	[Shoulderguards of the Molten Giant]	3.23
[Spaulders of Recurring Flame]	2.75	558	[Pauldrons of Roaring Flame]	3.16
[Shoulderguards of the Molten Giant]	3.23	469	[Spaulders of Recurring Flame]	2.92
[Spaulders of Recurring Flame]	2.43	499	[Pauldrons of Edward the Odd]	2.62
Back:
[Dreadfire Drape]	1.88	384	[Permafrost Cape] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	2.07
[Wings of Flame]	1.75	384	[Mantle of Patience]	1.94
[Permafrost Cape] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	2.07	321	[Twilight Dragonscale Cloak]	1.91
[Shroud of Endless Grief]	1.84	344	[Dreadfire Drape]	1.88
[Ruthless Gladiator's Cloak of Prowess]	1.63	360	[Shroud of Endless Grief]	1.84
[Mantle of Patience]	1.94	301	[Wrap of the Great Turtle]	1.84
[Dreadfire Drape]	1.70	341	[Permafrost Cape] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	1.82
[Permafrost Cape] (Dodge+Parry)	1.71	321	[Wings of Flame]	1.75
[Durable Flamewrath Greatcloak]	1.57	341	[Burned Gatherings]	1.72
Chest:
[Carapace of Imbibed Flame]	4.48	779	[Carapace of Imbibed Flame]	4.82
[Chestguard of the Molten Giant]	4.12	719	[Carapace of Imbibed Flame]	4.31
[Breastplate of Shifting Visions]	3.90	719	[Chestguard of the Molten Giant]	4.21
[Carapace of Imbibed Flame]	3.98	701	[Breastplate of Shifting Visions]	4.15
[Chestguard of the Molten Giant]	3.71	641	[Earthen Chestguard]	3.96
Wrist:
[Bracers of the Fiery Path]	2.44	429	[Bracers of the Fiery Path]	2.60
[Bracers of the Fiery Path]	2.17	386	[Bracers of the Fiery Path]	2.34
[Bracers of Regal Force]	2.24	356	[Bracers of Regal Force]	2.24
Hands:
[Handguards of the Molten Giant]	3.44	528	[Handguards of the Molten Giant]	3.52
[Flickering Handguards] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	3.29	557	[Flickering Handguards] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	3.46
[Handguards of the Molten Giant]	3.07	469	[Gravitational Pull]	3.19
[Flickering Handguards] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	2.94	498	[Handguards of the Molten Giant]	3.15
[Eternal Elementium Handguards]	3.00	469	[Flickering Handguards] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	3.10
Waist:
[Uncrushable Belt of Fury]	3.75	528	[Uncrushable Belt of Fury]	3.75
[Uncrushable Belt of Fury]	3.34	469	[Uncrushable Belt of Fury]	3.34
[Thunder Wall Belt] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	2.85	444	[Thunder Wall Belt] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	2.93
[Jumbotron Power Belt]	2.89	444	[Jumbotron Power Belt]	2.89
[Girdle of the Indomitable Flame]	2.47	499	[Girdle of the Indomitable Flame]	2.64
Legs:
[Legguards of the Molten Giant]	4.50	749	[Legguards of the Molten Giant]	4.75
[Legplates of Frenzied Devotion]	3.85	749	[Legguards of the Molten Giant]	4.27
[Legguards of the Molten Giant]	4.02	671	[Legplates of Frenzied Devotion]	4.10
[Lavaworm Legplates]	3.94	689	[Lavaworm Legplates]	3.85
[Legplates of Frenzied Devotion]	3.45	671	[Legplates of Frenzied Devotion]	3.77
Feet:
[Mirrored Boots]	3.04	469	[Mirrored Boots]	3.13
[Cracked Obsidian Stompers]	2.42	558	[War-Torn Crushers]	2.74
[War-Torn Crushers]	2.49	518	[Molten Tantrum Boots]	2.70
[Cracked Obsidian Stompers]	2.14	499	[Gryphon Rider's Boots]	2.66
Finger:
[Adamantine Signet of the Avengers]	1.98	399	[Deflecting Brimstone Band]	2.20
[Deflecting Brimstone Band]	2.20	341	[Dargonax's Signet]	2.10
[Dargonax's Signet]	2.10	344	[Permafrost Signet] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	2.07
[Permafrost Signet] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	2.07	321	[Adamantine Signet of the Avengers]	2.06
[Crystal Prison Band]	1.79	384	[Lylagar Horn Ring]	1.95
[Viridian Signet of the Avengers]	1.76	384	[Ring of the Battle Anthem]	1.84
[Theck's Emberseal]	1.77	384	[Permafrost Signet] (Dodge/Parry+Mastery)	1.82
[Widow's Kiss]	1.51	384	[Crystal Prison Band]	1.79
[Lylagar Horn Ring]	1.95	301	[Viridian Signet of the Avengers]	1.77
[Permafrost Signet] (Dodge+Parry)	1.71	321	[Theck's Emberseal]	1.76
[Crystal Prison Band]	1.58	341	[Red Rock Band]	1.72
[Theck's Emberseal]	1.57	341	[Permafrost Signet] (Dodge+Parry)	1.71
Weapon:
[Mandible of Beth'tilac]	1.79	296	[Mandible of Beth'tilac]	1.79
[Obsidium Cleaver]	1.60	296	[Obsidium Cleaver]	1.60
[Mandible of Beth'tilac]	1.58	262	[Mace of Acrid Death]	1.59
Shield:
[Shard of Torment]	2.28	474	[Shard of Torment]	2.62
[Shard of Torment]	2.05	431	[Shard of Torment]	2.39
Ranged:
[Deflecting Star]	1.00	217	[Extreme-Impact Hole Puncher]	1.04
[Arbalest of Erupting Fury]	0.89	217	[Deflecting Star]	1.00
[Extreme-Impact Hole Puncher]	1.04	170	[Gurubashi Destroyer]	0.94
[Deflecting Star]	0.88	192	[Thundercall]	0.92

A BiS for option 1 may look like this: chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm

Zwolf92 · 06/22/11, 11:17 AM

Mastery for Warriors has increasing returns due to it's two-roll system. Because of how the Critical Block mechanic works, mastery will always be the desired stat until the absolute hard cap, which is 100% chance to critical block, which is probably impossible to obtain. Combined with the increasing returns and diminishing returns, it still makes mastery the best stat for Warriors. So, even after 102.4% avoidance, Warriors will continue stacking mastery while Paladins will start reforging to parry and dodge.

You know the helm off Alysrazor is a DPS helm, right? It has crit and mastery on it. You say the difference between the tier helm and Baleroc's is a minor difference compared to the tier chest and Beth'tilac's. I'm seeing on the helm you're trading expertise for mastery, while on the chest you're trading parry for mastery. That's kind of a big difference.

Serivola · 06/22/11, 12:25 PM

You have to take into account that the tier head has reduced strength while the tier chest doesn't. Also the nonset chest has more mastery compared to the other stat while the nonset head has less. All in all you get a difference of around 0.7% CA comparing 4pT12 using nonset chest vs. nonset head.

Late edit: My calculations were wrong due to an typo (100 more mastery on Beth'tilac chest) so you will go with nonset head if you really prefer 4pT12.

spaace · 06/23/11, 10:29 PM

Helm of Blazing Glory is by far superior in every way, including socket and stat balances.

Couldn't critical strike chance also be more viable as a threat stat then say hit/expertise? (especially since now we don't need hit for interupts) Possibly after a soft-cap of dodge is reached.

JamesVZ · 06/24/11, 10:01 AM

Not really, both hit and expertise convert at a far more lenient rate than crit does. The old concern, of course, was that the base threat value of each ability was not modified by crit so it was almost entirely pointless, but I'm not sure if that's still valid or not.

spaace · 06/26/11, 3:25 PM

From what I've found, the base threat values remain the same. It's just the damage bonus of crit that is 100%

Jvicious · 07/01/11, 10:40 AM

Is the Mr Robot Gear Optimizer tool BiS list Correct. It seems to choose items that favor high doge or parry with no mastery.

It was my understanding that we should strive to have mastery be on every piece of gear we equip.

Ziggurat · 07/02/11, 2:12 AM

Apparently the Ragnaros shoulders are bugged and are really dodge/mastery, and not dodge/hit, so they are the offset item of choice

spaace · 07/02/11, 1:27 PM

Pauldrons of Roaring Flame - Game - World of Warcraft

Shows as dodge/mastery. 384/397(h)

But dungeon journal shows as dodge/hit..

Alash · 07/03/11, 7:08 PM

I have this awkward dilemma of doing fine against raid bosses, but sometimes coming up short on threat on trash/heroics. I realize there's an element of randomness that I'll have to accept when not reaching the hit/expertise caps, but when looking for a solution the guide confuses me. If mastery is king and blocking generates 15 rage through Shield Specialization, doesn't mastery become threat generation in its own right? Crucially, how does the threat granted by blocking compare to the threat granted by hitting more often?

Or more to the point: is the difference big enough so as to justify the loss in survivability?