[Cataclysm] Protection Warrior - Page 26

ketsudan · 07/07/11, 12:37 PM

Hi,

Has anyone gain any knowledge on the t12 2p? How does the 20%/4s damage work? 5%/s or 10%/2s or...? It's been bugging me whether if I SS twice (ss dev/rev [then snb proc] ss), the 2nd SS will eat up the remaining t12 2p SS dot. Or will it stack like deep wounds? I hardly think it does (been lookin thru several other classes forums, since t12 2p for multiple classes look the same), but all the same, if anybody has any light on the t12 2p dot mechanic, it'll settle my inquisitiveness for awhile.

Jvicious · 07/07/11, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by petre

2P - No mitigation increase, threat increase (including initial burst when leading with SS). Unanswered question: will the DoT stack? Only a factor after a SnB proc of course, with a minimum Heroism GCD cap of 1s (for the insane haste-stacking failtank out there) you'll still have to wait 1s for the SS GCD, then another 1s for the SnB-attack GCD, then latency before you can get off another SS (unless someone has found a way to queue the SnB-proc'd SS before the server response that it proc'd, I sure haven't managed it). First tick at 2s and last tick at 4s (my guess) means SnB has the potential to lose the 2nd tick (if the ability overwrites) or to lose the 2nd DoT entirely (if the previous SS had higher damage and is considered a "stronger" version of the DoT). My guess is they'll work to avoid tick munching and other issues, and modeling this as a straight 20% increase to SS is probably going to get you pretty ballpark.

I believe that in cases where you aren't effected by TW/Heroism/Bloodlust the dot shouldn't really be an issue.

krazikris · 07/07/11, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by ketsudan

Hi,

Has anyone gain any knowledge on the t12 2p? How does the 20%/4s damage work? 5%/s or 10%/2s or...? It's been bugging me whether if I SS twice (ss dev/rev [then snb proc] ss), the 2nd SS will eat up the remaining t12 2p SS dot. Or will it stack like deep wounds? I hardly think it does (been lookin thru several other classes forums, since t12 2p for multiple classes look the same), but all the same, if anybody has any light on the t12 2p dot mechanic, it'll settle my inquisitiveness for awhile.

I can confirm that it does stack. On several occasions I've gotten a SnB proc following SS and have seen the dot go up to 5 seconds.

Galoren · 07/08/11, 5:56 PM

Originally Posted by spaace

Pauldrons of Roaring Flame - Game - World of Warcraft

Shows as dodge/mastery. 384/397(h)

But dungeon journal shows as dodge/hit..

Just a FYI to anybody still wondering about this. I finally found somebody on the armory with these shoulders and they are Dodge/Mastery.

Kar @ Silvermoon - Game - World of Warcraft

This would move it up to the top shoulder option on the BiS list a page back.

Zwolf92 · 07/09/11, 2:18 AM

Originally Posted by Galoren

Just a FYI to anybody still wondering about this. I finally found somebody on the armory with these shoulders and they are Dodge/Mastery.

Kar @ Silvermoon - Game - World of Warcraft

This would move it up to the top shoulder option on the BiS list a page back.

I can confirm this. It seems they updated the dungeon journal to show that the shoulders as indeed dodge and mastery. Atlasloot also shows this, as well as the link above. It seems now BiS options would be Rag shoulders and teir helm, chest, gloves and legs.

Serivola · 07/09/11, 4:09 AM

Even though Rag shoulders are now better you gain more CtC and more mastery from T12 ones because those Rag shoulders don't have increased mastery, so T12 beats Rag shoulders in two of three szenarios mentioned in the post one page back (reducing incoming damage and reducing chance to block noncritical) but if you go for stam the higher ilvl and so the higher stam will make the difference.

Gulvak · 07/10/11, 1:16 AM

Originally Posted by Serivola

Weapon: Beth'tilac

I was curious, wouldn't the [Obsidium Cleaver] be worth considering here just because it has slightly more mastery?

sineone · 07/10/11, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Gulvak

I was curious, wouldn't the [Obsidium Cleaver] be worth considering here just because it has slightly more mastery?

It's fine if you pick one up initially..but 123 dodge for 11 mastery (for non heroic) isn't the best of trades. More so when hit isn't something you shouldn't really be seeking out.

Edit: double checked numbers

Belewxxx · 07/10/11, 2:40 PM

I have spent the past few days learning a ton about my prot warrior. And being that I am new to tanking in CAT I have had concerns that I am not using my cd's correctly. I would like to get some feedback and some questions asked that I have not found within this thread.

First, I have charge and SB macro'd together. Has this just been a common practice or did I have an epiphany based on what I have read in this thread? In my mind SB not only adds defense for up front damage received but also aids in threat generation with SS increasing damage based on black value. I guess my question is is this what everyone is doing or is this a bad thing?

Second, Is there a loss in benefit in using SB and SW together, other than the obvious of using two cd's and not stretching them out to act one after the other to help mitigation for a longer period of time. An example of this is BETH in Firelands. I am the upstairs tank in our wipe fests and sometimes my healer does not join me as quickly as they should. In this case does using SB and SW stack... does SB that increases my mitigation to 105% act separately from SW's 40% damage decrease all at the same time?

Third, I have DEV and SB also macro'd together so that my SB is automatically refreshed almost instantly off CD.. I did this to insure that I had 10s un hittable and 20s hittable. Is this bad?

Im very new to tanking and need conformation please!

Shan · 07/10/11, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by Belewxxx

First, I have charge and SB macro'd together. Has this just been a common practice or did I have an epiphany based on what I have read in this thread? In my mind SB not only adds defense for up front damage received but also aids in threat generation with SS increasing damage based on black value. I guess my question is is this what everyone is doing or is this a bad thing?
[...]
Third, I have DEV and SB also macro'd together so that my SB is automatically refreshed almost instantly off CD.. I did this to insure that I had 10s un hittable and 20s hittable. Is this bad?

Don't macro your Shield Block into any of your special attacks. It's a sign of laziness or lack of experience. Use Shield Block to reduce burst damage, be it random or predictable and to increase your burst threat when needed. The difference in total damage taken between a perfect 33% uptime and a low 15% uptime is small (about 3% or less).

Zwolf92 · 07/10/11, 8:24 PM

Originally Posted by Serivola

Even though Rag shoulders are now better you gain more CtC and more mastery from T12 ones because those Rag shoulders don't have increased mastery, so T12 beats Rag shoulders in two of three szenarios mentioned in the post one page back (reducing incoming damage and reducing chance to block noncritical) but if you go for stam the higher ilvl and so the higher stam will make the difference.

Could we go more in that BiS list you posted earlier, please? I'm still not understanding some of this.

Like, for example. Helm of Blazing Glory is way better than the teir helm, while the difference between the teir chest and Beth's chest is rather small. Why would you go for the non-set chest to get the 4pc bonus, like you said?

Clexise · 07/11/11, 4:19 PM

ok so i had a question regarding what to do after reaching the unhitable mark and i think i am missing something. It seems to me that unless you hit the point in the diminishing returns were it takes almost twice as much dodge/parry rating for 1% as it does mastery would you not get more per point of rating out of dodge and parry as they reduce physical damage taken by 100%?

Ragnar9000 · 07/13/11, 6:44 PM

Originally Posted by Clexise

ok so i had a question regarding what to do after reaching the unhitable mark and i think i am missing something. It seems to me that unless you hit the point in the diminishing returns were it takes almost twice as much dodge/parry rating for 1% as it does mastery would you not get more per point of rating out of dodge and parry as they reduce physical damage taken by 100%?

They do reduce damage by 100%, while a block at un-hittable will be either 30% or 60%. Additional mastery will convert 30% blocks to 60% blocks. Damage that was .7x will now be .4x.

Before un-hittable, we have 1.0x or .7x damage plus the increased critical blocks you get. I'd say you have a bigger damage reduction after un-hittable than before. But it depends on what is going with the critical blocks. If mastery is still increasing critical blocks when you put another mastery gem in, and still throwing the excess into even more critical blocks, you would converting blocks into critical blocks, 2 for 1. At that nice .7x into .4x rate.

Zwolf92 · 07/15/11, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Belewxxx

I have DEV and SB also macro'd together so that my SB is automatically refreshed almost instantly off CD.. I did this to insure that I had 10s un hittable and 20s hittable. Is this bad?

The poster above is correct, macro'ing Shield Block to other abilities is normally bad idea. You can get away with macro'ing it to Shield Slam directly, (making sure Shield Block is first) to get the most use out of Heavy Repercussions. If you do it that way, however, you need to be careful to not use Shield Slam when you're not going to be taking any damage, say, during tank swaps in Occu'thar.

Originally Posted by Belewxxx

Second, Is there a loss in benefit in using SB and SW together, other than the obvious of using two cd's and not stretching them out to act one after the other to help mitigation for a longer period of time.

You should be keep Shield Block up whenever there is expected physical damage. Shield Wall is a more exaggerated form of that, using it to avoid large amounts of expected damage, or keeping it safe as an "Oh @#$*!" button. When your healer gets stuck in the ice traps on Shannox, you're going to want that. ^^

(Edit: Wow... can't believe I said that. Don't know what I was thinking. My bad! lol)

JamesVZ · 07/15/11, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Zwolf92

All damage mitigation effects are cumulative, not a multiplier. Say you use Shield Wall, you're taking 40% less damage from everything. Then you normal block on top of that. That's another 30%, so you reduced 70% of the damage from that hit. If you crit block, it's 100%.

This is entirely false. All damage reduction effects are multiplicative, not additive. A Critical Block + Shield Wall is 24% incoming damage. This has its uses of course, but it's hardly damage immunity.