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Old 11/12/11, 5:14 PM   #601
Petit
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Boulderfist
I was ignoring deep wounds because I didn't have it in my spec.
I'm not saying HT is worth using for every spec.

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Old 11/12/11, 6:39 PM   #602
Muspel
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warrior
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Petit View Post
Also SnB didn't play into the equation because I used HT only when I wasn't looking for SnB procs anyways.
Uh... SnB HAS to play into the equation. Every proc is a DPS gain.

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Old 11/12/11, 6:39 PM   #603
Rynok
Dancing Monkey
 
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Rynokism
Human Warrior
 
Non-US/EU Server
Originally Posted by Petit View Post
I was ignoring deep wounds because I didn't have it in my spec.
I'm not saying HT is worth using for every spec.
Your spec may work for you and your guild, but it's not efficient.

Tyráel: On the off chance that we don't suck at what we do, we should probably stop being so nice to people. They might get the wrong idea.
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Old 11/12/11, 10:56 PM   #604
Tengenstein
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Warrior
 
Azuremyst (EU)
I did a little work in Simcraft and at least for my toon it's worth keeping Rend up if SS on CD, and its worth using SW>CB in place of Rev/Dev as long as the Rev/Dev will not shorten the CD of SS. I found the following to give the highest DPS at both low incoming damage and high incoming damage witha 8/2/31 spec skipping Gag Order, Imp.Victory, Safeguard, and Thunderstruck

actions+=/heroic_strike,if=rage>=50
actions+=/inner_rage,if=rage>=85
actions+=/berserker_rage
actions+=/shield_block,sync=shield_slam
actions+=/shield_slam
actions+=/thunder_clap,if=dot.rend.remains<=3
actions+=/rend,if=!ticking
actions+=/revenge,if=cooldown.shield_slam.remains>1.5
actions+=/devastate,if=cooldown.shield_slam.remains>1.5
actions+=/shockwave
actions+=/concussion_blow
actions+=/revenge
actions+=/devastate
actions+=/battle_shout

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Old 11/13/11, 4:38 AM   #605
kopcap
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Jubei'Thos
At high vengeance HT is too powerful, both DPS and DPR wise, for DW to matter. SnB on 4th GCD does not cut it, its just short.

Last edited by kopcap : 11/13/11 at 4:46 AM.

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Old 11/13/11, 11:11 AM   #606
Muspel
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warrior
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by kopcap View Post
At high vengeance HT is too powerful, both DPS and DPR wise, for DW to matter. SnB on 4th GCD does not cut it, its just short.
It's not about the SS cooldown refresh, it's because SnB makes Shield Slam not cost rage.

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Old 11/13/11, 11:22 AM   #607
kopcap
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Jubei'Thos
Obviously.

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Old 11/13/11, 12:11 PM   #608
Tengenstein
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Warrior
 
Azuremyst (EU)
I'm generally find i'm fighting not to rage cap anyway so making SS free is not something that really tends to concern me
If I Use Airoword/WarTotem's Spread sheet at max vengeance HT is ~16.7k, a white swing is 5.2k, giving a net damage if i time the HT to fully reset my swing time of 11.5k which from a DPE is just below Rev's DPE of 12.9K. From a TPS stand point however HT is a lot better due to it's innate 1.5x damage as threat modifier, Again going off the spread sheet HT has a TPE of 125k, white swings have a TPE of 26.1k, so a net TPE of 98.9K which is far above Revs TPE of 64.6k ans Dev's 66.3k TPEs

So under the assuption that you're in a Infinite rage scenario and are fighting not to rage cap HT can be worth froma TPS stand point if it doens't entail the delay of an HS, and from a DPS stand point as well if in addition to the previous condition, doesn't extend your swing time by more than about 40%.

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Old 11/13/11, 1:56 PM   #609
Muspel
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warrior
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
I'm generally find i'm fighting not to rage cap anyway so making SS free is not something that really tends to concern me
If I Use Airoword/WarTotem's Spread sheet at max vengeance HT is ~16.7k, a white swing is 5.2k, giving a net damage if i time the HT to fully reset my swing time of 11.5k which from a DPE is just below Rev's DPE of 12.9K. From a TPS stand point however HT is a lot better due to it's innate 1.5x damage as threat modifier, Again going off the spread sheet HT has a TPE of 125k, white swings have a TPE of 26.1k, so a net TPE of 98.9K which is far above Revs TPE of 64.6k ans Dev's 66.3k TPEs

So under the assuption that you're in a Infinite rage scenario and are fighting not to rage cap HT can be worth froma TPS stand point if it doens't entail the delay of an HS, and from a DPS stand point as well if in addition to the previous condition, doesn't extend your swing time by more than about 40%.
If you're at full vengeance, you won't have threat problems. If you ARE having threat problems, then you're probably getting salved by accident or something.

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Old 11/14/11, 4:48 AM   #610
Petit
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Boulderfist
edit: first question didn't imply what I wanted it to.

Alright so here is what I'd like to know, assuming maxed vengeance.
SS -> rev/dev
or
SS -> Conc

If SS -> rev/dev, without SnB

SS->rev/dev->dev/rev
or
SS -> rev/dev->Conc


Basically, at what point if there is any does the higher scaling gcds trump the SnB potential of a rev/dev?
And conversely, at what point if there is any does the SnB potential of rev/dev trump the higher scaling gcds?

Last edited by Petit : 11/14/11 at 5:02 AM.

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Old 11/14/11, 4:56 AM   #611
kopcap
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Jubei'Thos
To cover DPR part, Dev's cost after SnB correction is 9 rage. While half a melee swing is worth about 6-7, meaning HT costs less rage.

Petit, very simplistic version:

1st GCD: SS
2nd GCD: SnB proc fishing (dev/rev)
3rd GCD: SnB proc fishing (dev/rev)
4th GCD: fillers (HT, CB, SW, dev)

Then there is also BnT to consider that varies greatly depending on your raid composition and talents. You won't go too wrong if you just treat it as a high priority filler in the last 6 seconds in most cases.

Last edited by kopcap : 11/14/11 at 5:07 AM.

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Old 11/14/11, 10:13 AM   #612
Tengenstein
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Warrior
 
Azuremyst (EU)
Assuming you've gotten a 378 weapon and above maybe 14k AP (30% vengeance for my toon)

1. Shield Slam
2. Refreshing a Rend with <3 second left via BnT
3. Revenge if an SnB proc will shorten SS's CD
4. Devastate if an SnB proc will shorten SS's CD
5. Putting Rend up
6. Shockwave
7. Concussion Blow
8. Revenge
9. Devastate

while squeezing off as many HS's as you can get without interfering with the above. IF you're fighting to not cap out on rage feel free to drop Revenge from your priority, its reage efficency is compromised if you're gonna be at 100 rage by the end of the GCD

For max TPS SW and CB swap priority

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Old 11/14/11, 12:06 PM   #613
Rynok
Dancing Monkey
 
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Rynokism
Human Warrior
 
Non-US/EU Server
Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
2. Refreshing a Rend with <3 second left via BnT
Blood and Thunder is not considered an efficient end-game raiding talent, as the points are better spent elsewhere for single-target threat mechanics. As such, your priority will change a little.

Tyráel: On the off chance that we don't suck at what we do, we should probably stop being so nice to people. They might get the wrong idea.
Rynok: You kicked someone from a PUG last week for sneezing in Vent without permission. How could anyone get the wrong idea about that?!


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Old 11/14/11, 1:24 PM   #614
Eetabeetay
Von Kaiser
 
Pandaren Warrior
 
Destromath
Originally Posted by Rynok View Post
Blood and Thunder is not considered an efficient end-game raiding talent, as the points are better spent elsewhere for single-target threat mechanics. As such, your priority will change a little.
Not sure where else you can spend those points for more single-target threat.
Check out this spec:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

There are 31 points in the protection tree, so there's no room to move points to other trees, and the only talents that weren't taken were Gag Order, Impending Victory, Safeguard, and 2 points in Shield Specialization. The only one of those that might be considered a tps increase could be Shield Specialization, but I can't really think of a situation where I'm not already drowning in rage and the extra rage income would likely go to waste.

Gag order seems unlikely to be a single target threat increase because SnB procs enough to where I rarely have to use my 4th GCD fillers, or at least rarely enough that I never have to use devastate in the 4th GCD because my other stuff is on cooldown.

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Old 11/14/11, 4:21 PM   #615
Petit
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Boulderfist
With the 2 set, SS scales at 0.792*attp most of the time (losing a tick of combust every time SnB procs and is used more than twice in a row)

Conc blow scales with 0.75*attp

I have a hard time believing that a devastate a gcd after a SS is worth it due to both how close in damage conc blow is to SS and due to have far off in damage devastate is relative to both.

Am I missing something? Maybe referring me to the post about the math behind SS fish fish filler could help me.
I have a really hard time believing that if every SnB potential happened, that the highest dps a prot warrior could do would be completely devoid of any shockwaves and conc blows.

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