[Cataclysm] Protection Warrior - Page 44

Otori · 12/07/11, 3:17 PM

Originally Posted by Bruisefest

Question. Due to the large amounts of raid damage, is it worth nerfing one's own gear (391->384) if necessary to pick up the 4 piece? I.E. Are the 7 ilvls on 1-2 pieces of gear that important for individual tank survivability or if the 4p would be more beneficial to the raid for fights such as H Morch, H Warlord, bad combos on H Yorshaj, etc. Where there are predictably large spikes in raid damage that the 12 second 20% DR CD could smooth out.

If you can remain CTC capped, I'd say go for it. Be aware though that SW is still your personal CD, so, unlike paladin tanks, there's that to consider when choosing to use it as a raid cooldown. You should talk to your raid and see if the extra raid CD is really needed and, if so, possibly ask for individual CDs where you would use SW (Pain Supression, mostly).

Avoy · 12/09/11, 4:34 PM

Hey, all!

Considering CTC is our priority as tanks, wich are the best consumables? I was considering using [Elixir of the Master] + [Prismatic Elixir] so i can get the Bonus for CTC + Spell Dmg Taken decreased.

/hug all

Eetabeetay · 12/09/11, 7:14 PM

Those are the best until you can maintain CTC without them. Then the flask becomes better.

kopcap · 12/10/11, 7:51 PM

No, speaking strictly Stam value, Mastery + Scroll combo pulls ahead of the flask. Unless you are an Alchemist, then you lose a little.

The biggest advantage of elixirs however is the utility they provide. You can pick Armor, Magic, Stam, Mastery, Exp and Hit depending on fight mechanics. And you can change them during a fight, combining with weapon swaps.

Rynok · 12/11/11, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by kopcap

No, speaking strictly Stam value, Mastery + Scroll combo pulls ahead of the flask. Unless you are an Alchemist, then you lose a little.

Explain this, because that's some horrible math right there. If you're already at standing CTC, adding another 250 Mastery is not going to help you as much as an extra 350 Stamina would, especially considering all the magic damage we're subject to this tier. I could possibly see the Scroll + Prismatic Exilir being the way to go during magic damage fights, but past CTC, the Flask of Steelskin is the best choice.

We've already established that post-CTC, Stamina pulls ahead of Mastery in value. While more Mastery would even out the physical damage input a bit more, there's just too much magic damage this tier for that to be a viable "everyone should do this, always" option.

kopcap · 12/11/11, 7:01 PM

The 'Mastery : Stamina' baseline ratio for gems and trinkets is '1 : 1.5'. The flask gives, 450 Stam. Elixirs give 225 Mastery + 150 Stam, or 225 mastery vs 300 stam which is a better rate than '1 : 1.5' we get from other sources. Thats a gain of 25 Mastery. All you do is swap the excess mastery from yellow gems into blue ones.

Now, we are not exactly paladins. To get CTC we still need yellow gems, unless we use Elixirs and two high ilvl mastery trinkets. Luckily, Mirror lost a lof of value this tier and is no longer compulsory, we got a very good and accessible Stamina trinket and Souldrinker gonna cut even further into our ratings. So you gonna see some yellow gems in warrior setups for a while, and mastery from elixirs is not getting wasted until we get very far intro heroics.

Rynok · 12/11/11, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by kopcap

The 'Mastery : Stamina' baseline ratio for gems and trinkets is '1 : 1.5'. The flask gives, 450 Stam. Elixirs give 225 Mastery + 150 Stam, or 225 mastery vs 300 stam which is a better rate than '1 : 1.5' we get from other sources. Thats a gain of 25 Mastery. All you do is swap the excess mastery from yellow gems into blue ones.

Now, we are not exactly paladins. To get CTC we still need yellow gems, unless we use Elixirs and two high ilvl mastery trinkets. Luckily, Mirror lost a lof of value this tier and is no longer compulsory, we got a very good and accessible Stamina trinket and Souldrinker gonna cut even further into our ratings. So you gonna see some yellow gems in warrior setups for a while, and mastery from elixirs is not getting wasted until we get very far intro heroics.

You really ought to read my posts. The Mastery vs. Stamina trade-off is completely irrelevant post-CTC. If you're already at standing CTC (102.4% avoidance without elixirs / SB up), Stamina is going to take preference. Period.

Runtime · 12/11/11, 11:38 PM

Well he has a point. If you change 225 mastery from your gems into stamina and then use the elixer scroll combo you'd net an additional 37.5 stamina.

kopcap · 12/11/11, 11:40 PM

A trade off is a trade off, it can not be irrelevant, it can only be bigger or smaller.

zork · 12/12/11, 6:07 AM

*This post had false data*

See below.

Runtime · 12/12/11, 6:57 AM

Do you have evidence of this? From what I gathered we still get crit block at the same rate and the block beyond the cap is wasted.

zork · 12/12/11, 9:06 AM

When the warrior shield blocks and is now above the 102.4 block cap, he pushes unmitigated hits off the table. The more mastery he has, the greater the benefit of shield block. Excess mitigation above the 102.4 diminishing returns cap, is converted to critical block chance.

Critical Block - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Plus there was once a blue post stating that this is the way how it supposed to be working. If not the shield block ability would be worthless aswell.

Probaton · 12/12/11, 9:15 AM

I'm not saying you're wrong but I am saying wowwiki is wrong. About pretty much everything that's changed in the past century (and yes, I'm speaking in hyperbole). Please either link the relevant blue post or test data.

kopcap · 12/12/11, 9:27 AM

It is a poorly worded, interpreted and applied quote. Mastery looses a lot of its value past CTC, this is pretty straightforward and can't be argued. And at our current item levels it also falls behind avoidance in most cases.

zork · 12/12/11, 9:38 AM

It looses its value only if it the exceeding mitigation gets cropped and not is not being converted. Like it does when using the shield block ability.

Blue Post: Upcoming Tanking Changes

Update: 10.28 6:03 PM PDT

As the release of World of Warcraft: Cataclysm draws near, we continue to fine-tune various class abilities. Based on feedback and our own testing, we're in the process of assessing and amending tanking cooldowns -- at level 85 in particular. Some of these abilities, like druid Savage Defense and death knight self healing, are particularly difficult to model, so further testing will be necessary before there is sufficient information to base adjustments on.

In the case of paladins and warriors, we have recognized that it is possible for block chance to get too high too quickly and cause a situation where stacked mastery and the warrior Shield Block ability behave strangely. Since that's a scenario we want to avoid, we're making some changes regarding how block chance is handled for each of these classes:

...

Warriors - At level 85, the value of Shield Block decreases as block value generated by Mastery increases. To remedy this, we will convert overflow of block + avoidance that exceeds 100% into critical block chance instead. Along with that change, Shield Block will be reduced to +25% block chance (down from +100%), but this will still yield a net buff for most warriors. Also in response to this change, the amount of block and critical block provided by Mastery will be equalized. Finally, Mastery will now grant 1.5% block chance per point.

Source: Upcoming Tanking Changes - MMO-Champion BlueTracker

The blue post states that any overflow will be converted into chance to critical block. But is this shield block specific?

Let's find out...
The final answer is in the blue post below: Upcoming Tanking Changes - MMO-Champion BlueTracker

Shield Block will spill over into critical block if any portion of the 25% would have been wasted because your block + dodge + parry is so high already. If you are somehow always over 100% (which will be pretty hard now), you only get the critical block when Shield Block is up. The intent is to make sure Shield Block isn't wasted, not to make sure you have mastery coming out your ears (or any other orifice in the facial region).

Thus: Only shield block value gained by shield block will be converted to critical block. (This + Hold the line + Critical block from mastery = Final chance to critical block)

So I have to revise my post above. Stacking mastery above 102.4% making it loose half its value because the normal chance to block gets cropped.

Dicussion on this topic on the official forums: Warrior Mastery Cap Question - Forums - World of Warcraft