[Cataclysm] Protection Warrior - Page 45

cynortas · 12/12/11, 10:30 AM

Hello,

Originally Posted by kopcap

Luckily, Mirror lost a lof of value this tier and is no longer compulsory, we got a very good and accessible Stamina trinket and Souldrinker gonna cut even further into our ratings. So you gonna see some yellow gems in warrior setups for a while, and mastery from elixirs is not getting wasted until we get very far intro heroics.

I've been following your posts closely and try to follow the advices you give, but I simply could not understand how you came to that conclusion. With no other magic damage reduction other than shield block, how did mirror lose its value for warriors? I still use it on many fights, even though it has less mastery than the FL rep trinket with crappy on-use and obviously the new trinkets introduced on 4.3

Muspel · 12/12/11, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by cynortas

I've been following your posts closely and try to follow the advices you give, but I simply could not understand how you came to that conclusion. With no other magic damage reduction other than shield block, how did mirror lose its value for warriors? I still use it on many fights, even though it has less mastery than the FL rep trinket with crappy on-use and obviously the new trinkets introduced on 4.3

It lost a lot of its value because there isn't much magic damage on many fights (Morchok, Hagara, Madness, Spine, and Blackhorn).

cynortas · 12/12/11, 12:37 PM

Well you are right but you also have to consider the increased AE damage the amalgamation does on spine when he has high stacks and the bullet's AE if/when a certain guild chooses to do the Nozdormu platform first on madness. But it's really something else for me I dont know how to explain it but the mirror actually feels like a talent for me now cause of the lack of magical damage reduction CDs

Rynok · 12/12/11, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by cynortas

Well you are right but you also have to consider the increased AE damage the amalgamation does on spine when he has high stacks and the bullet's AE if/when a certain guild chooses to do the Nozdormu platform first on madness. But it's really something else for me I dont know how to explain it but the mirror actually feels like a talent for me now cause of the lack of magical damage reduction CDs

I know a few Warriors who still carry it around to use on those fights that do include magic damage, but it's certainly no longer a viable option for most fights.

kopcap · 12/12/11, 6:58 PM

Originally Posted by cynortas

With no other magic damage reduction other than shield block, how did mirror lose its value for warriors?

The tier is highly physical, with little to no resistible magic damage on most fights. And a lot of physical burst that hurts.

We got Indomitable, that can trigger off magic damage and routinely give 60-80k bubbles.

That said I did not mean its "useless", only that its no longer default. If your dying from magic on any particular fight, by any means use it. In most situations I'd prefer Fire and Inomitable right now.

Darkmgl · 12/13/11, 2:43 PM

Mirror is actually pretty bad this Tier, at least once you start looking at the HM fights. Right now some of the burst dmg (both physical and magical) I've seen from screwing around for a bit with a few HM fights with my group last week actually led me to breaking my CTC by 1% in favor of more stamina. I actually wish a couple of my weaker slots were better because I really feel like I should be above 190k unbuffed health and CTC to tank HM safely.

The ratings loss is no problem for the two trinkets and the Souldrinker by full 410. I think the simulators are putting Night Elf LW/BS Warriors at around 272k buffed health with CTC which is a tremendous gain over what people had in T12. The 272k requires you to be a night elf to maintain CTC, Night Elf racial turns into 15,000-20,000 health at the top end because that is about what you can gain in stamina with the 2% extra miss rate cushioning your CTC.

A trinket like Indomitable comes out being much better than Mirror because the stam adds a bunch of EH and the proc is usually gonna trigger off a large burst attack unless your healers are slacking, providing a ton of EH when you need it.

While you can see use from the Mirror in fights like Yor'sajh (Solo tanking 10 man Void Bolt) or Zon'ozz (To soak a single lifesteal if you time it) those are really the only two instances the entire tier it is useful. Compare that to the list of abilities where EH will win:

Morchok - Stomp and the 100% physical debuff on heroic
Zon'ozz - melee with stacked focus anger (it gets pretty high on heroic sometimes), double tanking boss + tentacle
Hagara - Focused Assault (unavoidable on heroic)
Ultraxion - Hour of Twilight (unresistable)
Blackhorn - Everything he does
Spine - Stacked Amalgamations
Madness - Impale

Its hard to argue with stacking the EH this tier over anything else, especially once you are CTC.

Muspel · 12/13/11, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by cynortas

Well you are right but you also have to consider the increased AE damage the amalgamation does on spine when he has high stacks and the bullet's AE if/when a certain guild chooses to do the Nozdormu platform first on madness. But it's really something else for me I dont know how to explain it but the mirror actually feels like a talent for me now cause of the lack of magical damage reduction CDs

There's a difference between "never worth using" and "lost a lot of its value".

In Tier 11, Mirror was amazing for almost every fight. In T12, it was still great for a lot, especially Ragnaros. In T13, it's situationally amazing and occasionally useless.

nurofen · 12/14/11, 7:35 PM

Do we reforge out of parry/dodge/mastery and into expertise/hit? There are no other stats to reforge out of in tanking gear.

In terms of AOE tanking, I have discovered on the Twilight heroics that thunderclap is not as powerful as the druid's swipe. During those pulls you have one and one only chance to use one ability while the DPS have already opened up. If you get that first ability wrong then a few mobs will have already gone past you and run into the party, leaving you facing forwards away from them. That is a disaster as you then need to try to herd them up.

On the druid it is charge followed by swipe followed by thrash. Sometimes even thrash is not needed as swipe is so powerful and so wide. On the warrior I charge followed by thunderclap but some mobs ignore the thunderclap and run into the group. I have no other AOE to follow thunderclap with - shockwave is limited as the mobs are all spread around or situated spaced out to start with. In both cases the DPS have already opened up but the druid seems to hold them better with just one swipe. On the first two pages of this thread it was discussed that DPS should not really AOE before tank has even run in, but this is what they do anyway. Rend followed by thunderclap applies rend to everyone (similar to thrash) but you need to rend someone first and that is one GCD lost and the mobs are gone past by then.

Unless you can suggest something different, I think the best results are to charge at a mob on the side of the oncoming pack, turn 90 degrees and cast shockwave hoping that you will get them all in the cone.

cynortas · 12/15/11, 8:43 AM

Yes or you can charge the mob in the middle, take a few steps backwards to make the area shockwave will hit a bit larger. Whilst TC'ing, and cleaving (with glyph) with IR on. Imo if you do these you wont have any problems. You can also leap onto the pack, its damage isnt that great but you want to improve only for the initial seconds so that will count as well.

Armsaun · 12/15/11, 4:24 PM

Since I have low latency, I have a fraction more time than those with higher latency numbers, that might be the difference. My opening rotation (with B&T) for aoe usually goes:

Heroic throw+charge>rend+optional cleave with IR>thunderclap+cleave>shockwave+cleave (depending on rage levels).

This much aggro should let you get rend up on everything you're tanking, as well as give you time to apply sunders and debuffs. If you're feeling creative, feel free to Hthrow a caster with gag order and charge a different enemy.
The important point is to move with the enemies you don't have aggro on yet, so your Tclap will spread rend. If your dps have aggro 2 globals after you charged, they are opening up too soon and deserve to get attacked.

Armsaun · 12/16/11, 3:24 AM

The BiS list on askmrrobot seems pretty good. They maintain CTC (if you ask) and get to 263,887 HP. The dodge and parry percents are both above 17%, so a bit too much dodge, but that's easy to fix with reforging.

A few points to note:
1) Presumably due to valuing ratings over the new weapon procs, they use Hand of Morchok over Souldrinker.
2) All five set pieces are used. The heroic tier legs are used over the crafted legs. I assume after CTC, parry and dodge become better for damage mitigation provided you can get Stam in every socket you need.
3) The set includes 2 stamina trinkets, so no need to sacrifice anything there.
4) The valor cloak, neck, and ranged are rated as BiS. Provided we agree that is true, those should be primary upgrades.

krazikris · 12/16/11, 4:01 AM

Originally Posted by kopcap

Luckily, Mirror lost a lof of value this tier and is no longer compulsory, we got a very good and accessible Stamina trinket and Souldrinker gonna cut even further into our ratings. So you gonna see some yellow gems in warrior setups for a while, and mastery from elixirs is not getting wasted until we get very far intro heroics.

Having killed Heroic Yor'shaj I can definitely say mirror still holds all of its value. Resist on heroic is king because of the Purple slime debuff, so much so that using Mirror and Sindragosa's Flawless Fang from ICC turned out to make healing through voids bolts with purple some what of a breeze compared to stacking stam.

It is safe to say Mirror isn't usefull in a lot of encounters buf it is still an amazing trinket.

Achiz · 12/16/11, 6:48 AM

Hi, in primis sorry for my english.
I have a question about the trinket, what you think about the trinket that drop from the spine? I try this trinket and it give (normal) 880 dodge rating, it give much higher avoidance that the mastery trinket.

And i check the BiS list mentioned above. I found some strange things can you explain me why maybe:
1) Why boots from valor are better than boots with mastery of the Dragon Soul raid.
2) Hand of Morchock is really better than Souldrinker?
3) Some socket are strange it put blu gem in yellow socket and than yellow gem in blue socket without taking the bonus

I'm not sure of the affidability of this site. Thx for the advice.

Runtime · 12/16/11, 10:53 AM

I would take mr robot with a grain of salt. A couple of changes I would do to its list would be:

MH:[Souldrinker] Instead of Hand of Morchok
Ring 2:[Curled Twilight Claw](you cant wear 2 hard heart rings)
Trinket 1:[Resolve of Undying] Instead of Soulshifter Vortex

After making some changes to the list, I really dont think AskMrRobot is smart enough to calculate CTC. After changing out a stam trinket for the Resolve, It didnt change any of the gems to compensate for having more CTC

Armsaun · 12/16/11, 1:28 PM

I agree that the list is wrong in some places, but I would definitely like to start the discussion.

1) Souldrinker seems necessary. Hand of Morchok cannot be the correct MH weapon.
2) The crafted legs may be BiS if it means extra stamina gems.
3) We will have to reforge, gem, and enchant according to our own CTC table.
4) Do we still agree that EH>avoidance? Is there a point where extra EH reaches a "soft cap" like it did in T11?