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Old 12/31/11, 11:56 AM   #706
reichardt
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Runtime View Post
This would be what I consider the most ideal set. You still have the same gemming strategy as the double stam trinket set but you only favor avoidance in your reforging if you are over the CTC cap. This set falls almost right in the middle of your 2 sets in stat distribution. If you can manage to get 2 full sets of tank gear then your 2 sets might by BIS based on the fight. If you are unable to, my set finds a good middle ground. Though I really dont like the Soulshifter Vortex on a block capped warrior since the proc wont be a substantial damage reduction since its all going to crit block. Not to mention it can proc when you aren't actively tanking wasting a ICD.
Minor detail, but your setup is not wearing any cloak.

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Old 01/01/12, 3:33 AM   #707
kopcap
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Jubei'Thos
I think this is a better build right here, you lose a little avoidance but it puts you to 260k.

chardev 9

One thing I can't make my mind about is Fire vs Resolve. Everything screams Fire is better, but the budget on dodge trinket is just insane.

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Old 01/01/12, 4:42 AM   #708
Armsaun
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warrior
 
Arthas
Honestly, if we can reach the point where we have a heroic Resolve, we have every boss on farm.

I'd say that the difference between 0, 1, and 2 stam trinkets becomes pretty insignificant. After buffs, each stam trinket adds 984 stamina, or 13,748 HP. At best, that's an extra 10% HP for both trinkets. Add in that the procs aren't ideal for every fight, and it looks like we just have to switch them out between bosses. When low incoming damage is preferable, we use Resolve/Fire, and when physical damage is unimportant we use Pride/Vortex.

As with every other tier, trinket choice should be evaluated for individual boss fights. If you ARE going to change trinkets, make sure you are at CTC cap without them, which may mean having some yellow gems in your gear.

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Old 01/05/12, 5:24 PM   #709
Petit
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Boulderfist
Any prot warriors here able to successfully tank Heroic Yorsahj 25man?
Or 10man I guess? Although I haven't seen 10 man to note if its similar enough to cause similar problems.

I've been theory crafting a lot as prot warriors seem to be the bottom dog on that fight. In particular when dealing with deep corruption.

I'm usually the second tank to tank the boss during deep corruption to allow for 8 heals; however, I'm still either dying to void bolt + melee spikes or to the dot after receiving 8 heals.

I've been using the Mirror and have been building my CTC around Sindragosa's Flawless Fang - Item - World of Warcraft for the fight. Its still not enough it seems.

Right now I'm dpsing because the healers think that our pally and dk tanks are easier to heal for this fight. I want to know if I'm doing something wrong or if warrior tanks are inherently bad at this fight.

Here is an example attempt. On this attempt, I used shield block into sindy's fang and then mirror into enraged regen plus all the victory rushes I could get from the adds. I'm not using my major cds because I'm saving them for when we get purple, blue, and green. Btw, I'm the raid leader and the perspective is of our GM.

Yor'sahj Double Red Double Dark... - YouTube

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Old 01/05/12, 7:47 PM   #710
ryL
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Warrior
 
Durotan (EU)
I wouldn't save both of your myjor cds for a particular combination. Shield Wall and Last Stand (or RC if you want to use it as a ride wide cooldown) are up for every second combination, so if you alternate them you can use one major cd every wave. Trinkets and Shield Block are usable every single wave and due to the fact, that you want raid cds when purple is up to mitigrate raid damage (and thats when you want single target cds as well), you can just build two sets of cds.

This is what worked for me (taking the last 3 debuffs as well):
"Set 1": Shield Wall after taunt (for the first two debuffs), Shield Block for the 3rd debuff and then Mirror and 2nd trinket (Stay of Execution) to survive in the end
"Set 2": RC and Enraged Regen after taunt, Shield Block after Regen expires and again Mirror to let the debuff wear off

It is important that you have cooldowns up for every application of Void Bolt (or at least for the last two applications or so), cause the combination of the initial damage from Void Bolt, the ticking DoT and a possible melee hit can be dangerous. I also found it useful to use my major cd pretty much directly after taunting (after the first melee hit that is), because thats usually the time, where the raid drops low and we want a raid wide cooldown.

Another important thing is, that your paladins have a rotation for Lay on Hands if you drop too low at the end and already have four stacks (loh does not apply a stack and heals you for like three ticks of Void Bolt).

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Old 01/05/12, 8:37 PM   #711
Petit
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Boulderfist
I agree with whats said above.
The only reason I save my major cds for green is because I'm the only raider that has a cd that has a large enough radius of effect to work during the green phase.
Most of the time I use my major cds out of green phase though. I just have to be less liberal with them than I otherwise would want to be.

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Old 01/06/12, 5:50 AM   #712
cynortas
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Aszune (EU)
Originally Posted by Petit View Post
I want to know if I'm doing something wrong or if warrior tanks are inherently bad at this fight.
First of all I believe this is true, for Yor'sahj we are simply not as good as other tanks. But yes you can follow the way ryL explained above. What I do is similar. (I also tank him as the second tank) I just don't use major CD right after I taunt like ryL does. I pop either SW or LS when the second stack of the debuff is applied. In my experience the most dangerous period is the time between the 2nd application and when he stops meleeing you. You also probably noticed after the third stack is applied he stops meleeing you so you can get away with using the mirror. (If purple is up just run somewhere safe and let them explode you, people will be far away dpsing the new globule anyway.)

Of course like ryL said again if you have 4p set bonus you may want to save SW for high raid damage periods etc.

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Old 01/07/12, 4:51 AM   #713
Armsaun
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warrior
 
Arthas
Originally Posted by Glurak View Post
chardev 9


i think this is perfekt

Some thoughts:
1) You choose Resolve of Undying to get you up to CTC cap, not as added mitigation over the cap. This means that you are not capped at the beginning of a fight, nor anytime you stop attacking targets (Morchok, Hagara, and Madness transitions come to mind). A stam trinket might be a better choice, or simply gear differently.
2) You choose Brackenshell Shoulderplates over the tier shoulders. You gain parry/dodge but you end up losing CTC and stamina in the long run. It's a trade-off that some will choose, but it's not gearing for maximum EH, nor is it gearing for lowest average damage taken, because you're not matching sockets everywhere.
3) Your reforge strategy makes no sense to me. You reforge dodge>parry in some slots, and parry>dodge in others. Either we want maximum avoidance to help with CTC or we want an optimal parry/dodge ratio for avoidance with Hold the Line. We can't do both.
4) You ignore many socket bonuses. I don't understand why, given my other critiques.

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Old 01/07/12, 12:18 PM   #714
kopcap
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Jubei'Thos
Its my link, so I'll address this.

1) This is pretty much irrelevant, it stacks long before you get into any danger. On Morchok you can keep it up with HT btw. Hagara is a special case, should gear accordingly. CTC does nothing on it anyway. I'd love to see another good stam trinket, but we have what we have.

2) Ye, you can argue for that. You win about 2.6k hp, you also lose about 1.45% avoidance. Its fairly close. I'm not trying to make the most "this" or "that" set, I am trying to strike a balance I am most comfortable with.

3) This is close to what I consider optimal for HtL/Windwalk. Although, Twilight Curl should go to Parry instead of Dodge for a slightly bigger margin. I would not go any further than 350-400 rating difference at most for this ilvl based on my napkin math. And don't bring 8 month old graphs for 372 ilvl into this pls.

4) I ignore them because they are bad and because I see no other way to push stamina.

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Old 01/08/12, 6:21 AM   #715
Demes
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Why BS-Enchanting? BS-LW gives more stamina.

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Old 01/08/12, 6:53 PM   #716
kopcap
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Jubei'Thos
An oversight.

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Old 01/09/12, 8:54 AM   #717
Malevolencia
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Petit View Post
Any prot warriors here able to successfully tank Heroic Yorsahj 25man?
Or 10man I guess? Although I haven't seen 10 man to note if its similar enough to cause similar problems.

I've been theory crafting a lot as prot warriors seem to be the bottom dog on that fight. In particular when dealing with deep corruption.

I'm usually the second tank to tank the boss during deep corruption to allow for 8 heals; however, I'm still either dying to void bolt + melee spikes or to the dot after receiving 8 heals.

I've been using the Mirror and have been building my CTC around Sindragosa's Flawless Fang - Item - World of Warcraft for the fight. Its still not enough it seems.

Right now I'm dpsing because the healers think that our pally and dk tanks are easier to heal for this fight. I want to know if I'm doing something wrong or if warrior tanks are inherently bad at this fight.

Here is an example attempt. On this attempt, I used shield block into sindy's fang and then mirror into enraged regen plus all the victory rushes I could get from the adds. I'm not using my major cds because I'm saving them for when we get purple, blue, and green. Btw, I'm the raid leader and the perspective is of our GM.

Yor'sahj Double Red Double Dark... - YouTube
In addition to what has already been said, you should note that the first tank has a far easier time surviving than the second person has. This is because the timing of things is about 4 of the void bolts coming before deep corruption resets and then 2 more after. What this means is the first person (who takes 3 stacks) can get 4 heals on him for healing the initial damage of 3 void bolts, and then another 4 to keep alive during the dot effect. In comparison the 2nd tank can get four heals to heal up the first void bolt application, and then only has 4 heals to handle 2 more applications + the entire dot duration.

Also make sure you're aware of every type of heal that can be used to keep you up, like a swiftmend on someone else (or a pet) leaves an effloresence you can stand in for healing that gives no stacks. Beacon of Light also gives no stacks, and pets don't gain stacks, so it's a good idea to have paladins spamming a pet once everyone is at 4 stacks to keep the tank alive during that long dot.

If on the other hand you do it on 10man, you can just explode the tank after the first debuff reset as the damage won't kill anyone else in the raid...

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Old 01/10/12, 12:11 AM   #718
Armsaun
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warrior
 
Arthas
I've been trying to figure out what trinkets would be best when I don't want 2 stam trinkets. Obviously, resolve is the way to go for its "static" dodge bonus. Is Fire of the Deeps really the best second trinket for avoidance?

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Old 01/10/12, 9:25 AM   #719
Runtime
Piston Honda
 
Troll Warrior
 
Hyjal
For trinkets this tier, It seems better to look at the CDs on them rather than the static damage reduction they give. Id at this point consider Mirror of broken Images, Stay of Execution, and Indomitable Pride some of the strongest trinkets this tier.

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Old 01/12/12, 4:53 PM   #720
Armsaun
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warrior
 
Arthas
Without trinket procs, you cannot reach the crit block cap. Even stacking mastery the best I could do is a little over 53 mastery, during an Intomitable Pride proc--that's about 80% crit block from mastery (35 mastery no proc for 52% crit block). However, I only get 40% avoidance from parry/dodge in that setup.

By comparison, I could gem and reforge into dodge/parry and get over 50% avoidance from dodge/parry, but mastery is down to 20, so I barely cover CTC. That adds up to 30% crit block outside trinket procs.

Ultimately it's a trade-off that you have to choose. However, stamina is almost always better than both setups because the extra HP allows you to live longer during damage bursts. Magic damage this tier is also more prevalent, so you want stam to lessen its impact.

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