[Cataclysm] Warrior: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 17

Goreskull · 04/28/11, 4:11 AM

So has SMF or TG pulled significantly ahead of eachother? I've got an unequipped soulblade in my bag right now waiting for the verdict.

Milcky · 04/28/11, 6:22 AM

My question is as follows since it has no been answered on the battle net forums yet

With the increase of the hit statweight, should I now spec 3 points into Incite or still 3 points into Deep Wounds as SMF?

I have found one reply somewhere on the internet that states the following and to me it makes perfect sense.
YET if I go to anyone's armory of the major guilds etc.. that is SMF, he/she still goes for 3 points into Deep Wounds

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Clever usage of Incite procs will greatly increase your Flurry uptime.
The higher Flurry uptime, the more white swings you do, the more rage you get, the more Heroic Strikes you can do resulting in even higher Flurry uptime.
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juv3nile · 04/28/11, 6:48 AM

Originally Posted by Goreskull

So has SMF or TG pulled significantly ahead of eachother? I've got an unequipped soulblade in my bag right now waiting for the verdict.

Just based off the base mastery nerf and the buff to auto attack damage Im certain SMF is ahead by a decent amount.

earle117 · 05/01/11, 8:26 PM

Why does the Warrior FAQ tell you to do 8/21/0 +2? I would think you'd wanna go 8/21/2 with the points in Incite for sure for TG, and maybe even drop a point from Deep Wounds and go 3/3 Incite for SMF.

He doesn't even use Incite as one of his suggested talents, instead using one that requires stance dancing and is now even more worthless due to the WW buff, and another that only heals a small amount. Incite, while not being very good, is still a DPS up regardless.

Am I missing something about Incite?

Ulrezaj · 05/03/11, 6:11 PM

Ever since the Heroic Strike nerf in 4.0.6, Incite has been greatly devalued. Currently, taking a point from Deep Wounds and putting it into Incite is a dps loss. How much of a loss will depend on your gear, but for me, simcraft says it's about 300dps down, which is significant.

Coolshark · 05/04/11, 5:58 AM

Hi guys,

4.1 is live and all of us know about the more dps coming from Arms spec (see for World of Warcraft 4.1.0 Live (build level 13914) Simulationcraft Results), so if fury spec is still in your mind please continue reading, if not just do something else.

I've been playing TG for all 4.0.6, but since 4.1 I moved to SMF with a great improve to my dps and here follow my simulations:
TG 4.0.6 chardev 8
SMF 4.1 chardev 8
As you can see there's a great DPS improvement moving to an heavy hit/crit SMF gear and that's because of the improved white swing damage since last patch.

Based on my SC tests the Arms spec should have a better DPS in raid, but based on my raid experience (I'm still raiding as smf fury and the other war as Arms) my DPS is still above the Arms one, and I'm talking about a range of 1500-2500 DPS above per fight.

I need a little help from you to improve my simulationcraft experience. I'm talking about "how-to-read-" the simulationcraft "Plots" and "Reforge Plots" graphs, I've also been looking to the WIKI page of the simcraft but I'm still confused about how these graphs should be read.....

PLOTS (Crit/Hit/Mast):

REFORGE PLOTS (Crit/Hit):

Please try to explain me how you read these graphs if you can.
Maybe this is the wrong section so sorry in advance.

Regards

Azerate · 05/04/11, 8:38 PM

Originally Posted by earle117

Why does the Warrior FAQ tell you to do 8/21/0 +2? I would think you'd wanna go 8/21/2 with the points in Incite for sure for TG, and maybe even drop a point from Deep Wounds and go 3/3 Incite for SMF.

He doesn't even use Incite as one of his suggested talents, instead using one that requires stance dancing and is now even more worthless due to the WW buff, and another that only heals a small amount. Incite, while not being very good, is still a DPS up regardless.

Am I missing something about Incite?

Situations where incite will come in handy are very rare now, still if you prefer even minor dps increase than utility talents put that 2 points into incite. Not sure why FAQ is so against it that it doesnt even recognize it as an option. Check out the specs of top guild warriors they still use 2/3 incite.

A-91 · 05/06/11, 6:21 PM

With the lower base mastery isnt slam hitting harder than raging blow right now for TG? I read somewhere that RB starts hitting harder than slam above 14% mastery.

meteo · 05/07/11, 11:00 AM

Do thunder clap and shockwave still act like ranged attacks (and use ranged critchance)?

If they didn't change this from WotLK to Cata, I don't understand why most warriors don't take a bow/gun enhancement.

Gulvak · 05/07/11, 6:26 PM

I'm pretty sure Thunderclap is still a ranged attack as far as critical strikes are concerned. However I'm not sure about Shockwave.

I had a quick question. Is there any way in simulation craft to plot hit past the soft cap beyond using positive deltas only? As I play with the program it seems like using positive deltas is messing up the scaling on my mastery. Ideally I'd like to see scaling prior to the cap and scaling past the cap in one run if possible.

Charybdis · 05/07/11, 7:50 PM

Originally Posted by Gulvak

I'm pretty sure Thunderclap is still a ranged attack as far as critical strikes are concerned. However I'm not sure about Shockwave.

I had a quick question. Is there any way in simulation craft to plot hit past the soft cap beyond using positive deltas only? As I play with the program it seems like using positive deltas is messing up the scaling on my mastery. Ideally I'd like to see scaling prior to the cap and scaling past the cap in one run if possible.

This is something we're actively working on, but SimC's people have had problems getting Hit to work both ways. It requires a bit of an overhaul with the calculations and such, but it's on our list of things to implement.

Shockwave is technically a ranged attack since it can't be dodged or parried from what I've seen. However, if I recall correctly a blue confirmed some time ago it would use melee crit and attack power like a paladin's Judgement.

Play_Peter_Griffin · 05/10/11, 2:50 AM

What is the formula for the critical strike cap (the point when additional critical strike rating and/or effects that increase critical strike % don't increase your dps anymore)?

IceShadow · 05/10/11, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Coolshark

PLOTS (Crit/Hit/Mast):

REFORGE PLOTS (Crit/Hit):

Please try to explain me how you read these graphs if you can.

It looks to me like you're not using enough iterations. 10000 iterations is really recommended for any stat weighting or plots. You're seeing a lot of statistical noise because your iterations aren't high enough, I'd say.

I used SimC with your 4.1 TG chardev link, and got the following graphs:

Which are much smoother, flatter lines than the images you posted. You can see that Mastery is clearly inferior to the other two stats in the first image (the line is "flatter"; losing it will result in less of a DPS loss, gaining it will result in less of a DPS gain than the other two stats), and Crit is mostly always above Hit (when it's not, it could be attributed to statistical noise as well, since it happens at only three points on the graph).

The reforge plot is also much smother than yours (presumably due to more iterations), and shows that it's better to reforge to Crit instead of Hit; again, the outliers could be attributed to statistical noise.

Nescio21 · 05/10/11, 9:43 PM

Hi. I've been a long time reader of EJ but a first-time poster.

I've hit 85 on my warrior a few days ago and I'm a little unsure about a couple of things. I've read through the FAQ and then through this thread, but I see conflicting messages and I'm not sure if they're all up-to-date with 4.1.

1. Stat priorities

Get 8% Hit (including Precision), 26 Expertise. After that, Strength > Hit (up to 27%) > Crit > Haste == Mastery.

A: Get 8% Hit (including Precision), 26 Expertise. After that, TG prioritizes Strength > Crit > Mastery == Hit > Haste. SMF prioritizes Strength > Crit > Hit > Haste > Mastery.

It seems that the stat priority is: 8% Hit > 26 Expertise > Strength > Crit > 27% Hit > Mastery > Haste - (Where more hit will help you if you're having rage issues)

First, what does the "==" mean? As in Crit > Haste == Mastery. I first thought equal to, but then I read everywhere that Mastery is superior to haste, so the stat priority in the FAQ would then be wrong.

Secondly, some say crit is more important after 8% hit, and some say hit is more important. What is the latest on this? I'm aiming at about 8-9% hit. Should I reforge the rest of my hit into crit? Do I ever reforge into mastery or is this never the case? And since mastery seems to be inferior to crit, should I reforge all mastery into crit or is there a level at which this isn't worth it?

2. Gems
Should I gem +40 str in everything, except if it gives a +str bonus? Gem something like +20 str +20 crit if it gives +10str as a bonus?

Thank you for your insights in advance.

Kurathikai · 05/11/11, 3:19 PM

As of 4.1 patch changes, the auto-attack buff has put hit as our second best secondary stat after crit, so it looks something like this: 8% hit, 26exp, Str>Crit>Hit to 27%>Haste>Mastery. Not positive on which is the weaker stat between Haste and Mastery. For SMF Haste is superior, but they are closer as TG. You would in this case, once you've reached the special hit cap and expertise cap, reforge additional mastery into crit, and if crit is already on the item, hit. In the rare case that you have both haste and mastery, consider finding a better itemized piece.

As far as gemming, since Str is worth so much more than any of the secondary stats (including crit) bonuses are only worth getting if they are +20str or more. The only case of that currently in-game are chest and helm. For everything else you're better off gemming straight +40 str.

There are several good reforging calculators our there that either predefine stat weights for you based on an imported armory profile, or allow you to input your own stat weights, to help you optimize crit and hit, and minimize mastery (and to a lesser degree haste) most effectively. I believe Wowreforge is a pretty useful one. There are others as well.

Hope this helps!