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Old 09/17/11, 11:02 PM   #376
Muspel
Piston Honda
 
Muspel's Avatar
 
Human Warrior
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Ronninn View Post
I've got a quick tanking question. I predominantly play as a DPS warrior and haven't tanked since Wrath and early in Cataclysm. I used to always spec into Vigilance, but now I'm wondering if there is much of a point to choosing to spend a talent point on this since the change to tanking threat. I've been told it's nearly impossible to pull threat from a half decent tank so long as the DPS don't jump the gun and attack right away. Is Vigilance still a desirable tanking talent for Protection Warriors?
In 5-mans, Vigilance is fairly useless.

In raids, you can stick it on your offtank, which helps you to maintain vengeance when you're not actively tanking (or get more vengeance when you're both tanking something). On certain fights, such as Baleroc or Ragnaros, the extra damage output will help with tight DPS checks.

There's a couple of raid encounters where you can drop Vigilance (Majordomo is the best example). But overall, it's a very solid choice and the other places to put that point aren't very appealing.

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Old 09/18/11, 12:42 AM   #377
Abranor
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Lightbringer
Delete please

Last edited by Abranor : 09/18/11 at 6:23 PM.

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Old 09/18/11, 1:24 AM   #378
Otori
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Azralon
For SMF Fury, does the 4pc bonus make it so that RB should be prioritized over Slam?

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Old 09/18/11, 1:42 PM   #379
Ragnar9000
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Fenris
Originally Posted by Ronninn View Post
I've got a quick tanking question. I predominantly play as a DPS warrior and haven't tanked since Wrath and early in Cataclysm. I used to always spec into Vigilance, but now I'm wondering if there is much of a point to choosing to spend a talent point on this since the change to tanking threat. I've been told it's nearly impossible to pull threat from a half decent tank so long as the DPS don't jump the gun and attack right away. Is Vigilance still a desirable tanking talent for Protection Warriors?
It's good for the Spinners as mentioned above, for tank swap fights, and for your bonus AP gained.

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Old 09/19/11, 9:38 AM   #380
Caolneto
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Gurubashi
Ok. Very simple.

This is the link from armory.
Ugllug @ Warsong - Game - World of Warcraft

I have this 3 trinkets.
Darkmoon Card: Hurricane - Game - World of Warcraft
Apparatus of Khaz'goroth - Game - World of Warcraft
Essence of the Eternal Flame - Game - World of Warcraft

What is the best combination for use this trinkets?

Tks a lot.

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Old 09/20/11, 8:20 PM   #381
emysoab
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Rivendare
2pc t12

As a tg fury warrior, does the 2pc t12 bonus give battleshout priority over any of our damage abilities?

I generally use it every free gcd it's available unless i'm close to rage capping, should I just keep doing that and try and put it up during other cd phases?

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Old 09/21/11, 6:31 AM   #382
Serivola
Von Kaiser
 
Goblin Warrior
 
Nathrezim (EU)
@Caolneto: Essence and Apparatus should be your best choice on most fights. But all those trinkets are relatively equal.

@emysoab: Battleshout only takes priority over Slam. BT, RB or CS shouldn't be delayed for Battleshout.

Last edited by Serivola : 09/21/11 at 6:36 AM.

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Old 09/23/11, 1:45 AM   #383
Sophitia
Glass Joe
 
Human Warrior
 
Kel'Thuzad
Sophitia @ Kel'Thuzad - Game - World of Warcraft
Here's my armory. Notice something strange?

I was playing around with my gear a couple weeks ago, switching my weapons between main hand and off hand to see weapon models, and I immediately noticed something odd and I can't find any explanation why. I've looked up damage formulas read these forums and maybe I'm missing something...

Sulfuras main hand with Zoids heroic off hand does more damage than vice versa according to both my character sheet and landsouls spreadsheet, which makes no sense since Zoids has higher low end, top end, and dps. Is it true that weapon speed plays some kind of role in this or is it the strength on the weapon itself? I mean if that was the case, that would lead me to believe jc gems in the main hand would be infinitely better.

for example:
Sulfuras / H Zoids = 9332-11179
H Zoids / Sulfuras = 9076-10944
unbuffed

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Old 09/23/11, 8:02 AM   #384
Malevolencia
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Turalyon (EU)
This is because your attack power grants you 1dps per 14AP on your white attacks. In terms of damage per swing, this means that a slower weapon gains more damage per 14AP than a fast one to make the dps gain for both be equal.

I.e. After you gain 14AP and have a 2.0speed weapon, it will gain 2 damage per swing for a 1dps increase.
If you had a 4.0speed weapon and increase AP by 14, it will gain 4 damage per swing to also be a 1dps increase.

Since sulfuras is slower, it gains more damage per swing from you attack power giving you those numbers.

HOWEVER! This is only for white swings, special attacks like MS/SLAM/etc are calculated with a normalized weapon speed (I can't remember how much it was.. 3.5?) regardless of the weapon's real speed. So every weapon gains the same bonus from AP for yellow attacks. This means that for determining which weapon does higher damage with specials you need only look at the min+max weapon damage listed on the weapon. As the total damage dealt is based on the (base weapon damage + dps modifier from AP).

So, with sulfuras in MH your white hits will hit harder (but do less dps over time since it's swinging slower) and your specials which depend on weapon damage will do less damage since it has lower min and max damage on it too.

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Old 09/23/11, 8:55 AM   #385
Runtime
Piston Honda
 
Troll Warrior
 
Hyjal
Not all of warriors abilities are normalized. I know for a fact that slam isnt. The reason that Sulfuras is doing more dps is because your racial increases your Exp with Maces. Sulfuras is a very good mace that normally is very close behind the weapons a half tier higher but that extra benefit your racial gives you puts sulfuras over.

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Old 09/23/11, 9:51 PM   #386
Sophitia
Glass Joe
 
Human Warrior
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Runtime View Post
Not all of warriors abilities are normalized. I know for a fact that slam isnt. The reason that Sulfuras is doing more dps is because your racial increases your Exp with Maces. Sulfuras is a very good mace that normally is very close behind the weapons a half tier higher but that extra benefit your racial gives you puts sulfuras over.
Humans get sword specialization and mace specialization. I'm using a sword and a mace.

@Malevolencia, thanks, the AP thing makes sense and at first that argument sounded like I should probably use Zoid's in main hand, but when I use Landsoul's spreadsheet, I still get a higher DPS Metric with sulfuras in MH. Now I've found the AP formula and I see that the offhand damage is halved and that explains what I'm seeing.

I get (((839.8+13463/14)*3.6) + (((786.8+13463/14)*3.8)/2)*1.25)*1.15 = 12233.41 damage from mh+oh swing with (H)Zoids / Sulfuras
I get ((((839.8+13463/14)*3.6)/2)*1.25) + ((786.8+13463/14)*3.8))*1.15 = 12301.93 damage from mh+oh swing with Sulfuras / (H)Zoids

With this I do more weapon damage with S/Z but I get more white DPS with Z/S, however I imagine it is because of the % weapon damage from special attacks like CS/RB/slam that I get better overall dps with S/Z.

So, in the end it appears that MH: Sulf/OH: (H)Zoids > MH: (H)Zoids/OH: Sulf. However I'm not sure if a second Sulf in OH would be better than Zoids as the only skill that benefits from the weapon speed in OH is RB (I think zoid's would be better).

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Old 09/24/11, 4:57 AM   #387
tjl1982
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Warrior
 
Cho'gall
In regards to [Moonwell Chalice] prepot buff for DW, is this in fact a dps gain? I've found that by having to use shout prior to pull to get rage for DW, you lose the 2T12 bonus to start fight, as well as having the possibility to suffer from a little rage starvation. I'm wondering if any experienced warriors are still using this currently. Thanks again

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Old 09/25/11, 4:41 AM   #388
tschaka
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Blackrock (EU)
dont use only the trinket use a full set of mastery gear + trinket

60%+ DW makes u dont care about losing rage from BS ;P

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Old 09/28/11, 5:55 PM   #389
Meygaera
Von Kaiser
 
Meygaera's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Dalaran
For SMF, if you have BT available and a Slam proc available, is it better to use slam first then continue with BT? This situation often arises when I hit BT (and get a blood surge proc) then I hit CS, and now I have the choice to slam or hit BT again.

Lastly, regarding hit rating over the yellow cap, I have seen many answers for TG stating that in most boss scenarios mastery will come out on top, but is that also true for SMF? Or is the inflection point where mastery surpasses hit over the yellow cap a little further away.

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Old 09/28/11, 11:26 PM   #390
Otori
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Azralon
Originally Posted by Meygaera View Post
For SMF, if you have BT available and a Slam proc available, is it better to use slam first then continue with BT? This situation often arises when I hit BT (and get a blood surge proc) then I hit CS, and now I have the choice to slam or hit BT again.
Always BT. It hits much harder than Slam and, as our hardest hitting ability in fact, is always 1st priority. The loss you have from a "wasted" BS proc, because BT procs it again, isn't as huge as the loss of not hitting BT on cooldown, plus the odds of it not proccing are much higher than getting another proc. This means that, potentially, holding a BS proc could be a good thing because you have another GCD to fill where BT didn't proc.

Originally Posted by Meygaera View Post
Lastly, regarding hit rating over the yellow cap, I have seen many answers for TG stating that in most boss scenarios mastery will come out on top, but is that also true for SMF? Or is the inflection point where mastery surpasses hit over the yellow cap a little further away.
There's a tipping point where it's theorized that mastery will outperform hit. It's incorrect to say that in "most boss scenarios mastery will come out on top". I'm not sure this point is attainable even with current BiS gear, as I've only seen Landsoul mention it in his Compendium, but haven't followed any in depth discussion. Anyway, this absolutely does not apply to SMF, no matter at what amount of gear you're looking at. Mastery is vastly superior to Fury because it scales Raging Blow (which hits much harder for TG) and the white damage (which is also higher in TG) through Enrage.

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