[Cataclysm] Warrior: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 32

Farenvinvi · 01/21/12, 5:05 PM

This is a bit of a silly question, but I've been poking around and haven't been able to find a definitive answer: How do arms and fury compare at the moment?

I've seen people say arms is parsing higher, other people say that's only because a bunch of skilled warrs went arms to test it changing the skillcap, other say they switched in the first place because it sims higher... etc etc.

Amitymod · 01/22/12, 5:30 AM

Originally Posted by Farenvinvi

This is a bit of a silly question, but I've been poking around and haven't been able to find a definitive answer: How do arms and fury compare at the moment?

I've seen people say arms is parsing higher, other people say that's only because a bunch of skilled warrs went arms to test it changing the skillcap, other say they switched in the first place because it sims higher... etc etc.

These people do not have a lot of insight onto the matter. Arms is performing higher single-target up until you reach roughly 400ish ilvl, in which your stat budget will most likely put fury ahead. However, arms is also a harder rotation, which can drop a players dps if they are not skilled or experienced enough to pull it off.

Razual · 01/22/12, 8:31 AM

Originally Posted by Amitymod

These people do not have a lot of insight onto the matter. Arms is performing higher single-target up until you reach roughly 400ish ilvl, in which your stat budget will most likely put fury ahead. However, arms is also a harder rotation, which can drop a players dps if they are not skilled or experienced enough to pull it off.

do you have any evidence to prove that? when i look at WoL ultraxion 10 hc for example i see arms performing significantly better than fury. therefore, assuming gear and skill is more or less the same, your assumption seems wrong to me tbh.

gming18 · 01/22/12, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Ran Newman

Few questions about Arms AoE during Yorshaj HC:

1. TC, with Blood and Thunder; Do we use TC on CD or wait for rend to finish ticking?
2. WW, is it worth casting? (number of adds as in Yorshaj)
3. During SS, do we use cleave (glyphed) or HS? Do we use TC?

Originally Posted by Serivola

1. You use it on CD, the damage from TC itself plus that extra tick from Rend on every mob will result in highest damage per GCD of your abilities (~10k per mob, the other abilities are at about 35k-40k, so it's worth on 4+ mobs). If you use Sweeping Strikes only the TC-portion will be doubled. It will be worth to use it on CD anyways (on 6+ mobs) but you may activate SS directly after TC because the gain from SS on TC is just minor compared to the other styles.
2. WW will deal ~6k per mob so it is worth to use on 7+ mobs.
3. You use Cleave because every hit from it will be doubled. You will also use TC, but you want to have as few TC as possible during SS while using it on CD.

Serivola is incorrect in this case on some of his points for 1. and 3. Sweeping strikes benefits every hit of Thunder clap, but not every hit of cleave (this is easy to test on dummies). TC damage (minus the rend bonus damage) is effectively doubled by using sweeping strikes, vs other AoE abilities that do not scale as well. Cleave on the other hand should probably be used during all AoE situations where it hits enough targets, but not b/c of interaction with sweeping strikes. Heroic strike in an AoE situation would sweep for 1 additional target, doubling HS damage, vs. the primary hit of cleave sweeping, plus 2 additional targets from the normal cleave aoe split, resutling in +33% Cleave damage from sweeping strikes. If there are 3 targets, sweeping strikes + cleave will likely outdamage sweeping strikes + HS anyway, but it is important to keep in mind the actual mechanics at work.

The interaction of sweeping strikes with thunder clap is because TC counts as a ranged attack, and all affected targets will cause sweeping strikes to trigger, unlike say... whirlwind, where only the primary hit will trigger sweeping strikes. Of note, heroic leap is also counted as a ranged attack, and sweeping strikes into a heroic leap --> rended TC is very strong for AoE

Amitymod · 01/22/12, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by Razual

do you have any evidence to prove that? when i look at WoL ultraxion 10 hc for example i see arms performing significantly better than fury. therefore, assuming gear and skill is more or less the same, your assumption seems wrong to me tbh.

It's impossible to provide empirical evidence on this since there is there isn't a 100% accurate simulation of the arms model but the reference is to the simcraft arms and landsoul's spreadsheet for fury. 10m isn't an accurate reading since there may be applicable buffs/debuffs missing from encounters and only provide you with the top deviation of results. Ultraxion is also not a fair measure as it has a damage income mechanic that affects rage income. However, after doing some digging through raid bots average parses it seems arms is still 1-3k above in the majority of percentiles; so I retract my statement in that regards, we'll have to wait till full BiS to see if fury can outparse arms.

Raiderjim · 01/24/12, 12:19 PM

Question concerning Inner Rage and Deadly Calm:

I know Deadly Calm rotation is CS>MS>HS>OP>Slam and Inner Rage is spamming HS's. but should I be using them as an opener or as a means of sustaining longer bursts of DPS.

For example, an average boss fight would consist of BS, charge, MS until LttS, Reckless, CS/MS/OP/Slam rotation until recklessness falls off, pop trinket, which is another crit boost.

Should I be using DC and IR during the Recklessness and trinket phase or should I postpone until the trinket drops off as a means of sustaining dps? Dummy work is a bit inconsistant.

Auron · 01/25/12, 9:25 AM

You always want to stack dmg as much as possible, with that said DC cannot be used during reck/ir but you should use ir/reck and when that falls off DC or vice-versa during your 30sec apparatus window.

cyrocj · 01/29/12, 12:53 AM

For a prot warrior, what is the desired # aprox for both hit and expertise and still have enough mastery to not be squishy. I have looked at the warrior thread and I didnt see a definate answer?

Kurathikai · 01/30/12, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by cyrocj

For a prot warrior, what is the desired # aprox for both hit and expertise and still have enough mastery to not be squishy. I have looked at the warrior thread and I didnt see a definate answer?

Since neither does squat for survivability and threat is trivial you want as little of hit/exp as you can get i favor of mastery/parry/dodge

Muspel · 02/09/12, 4:46 PM

For incredibly short windows of an execute phase (tendons on heroic Spine), is it worth skipping over Executioner in favor of Incite as Arms? (Yes, I know Fury is better for Spine, but I don't have an adequate offhand weapon yet). I've only been able to fit in 3-4 executes before the plate pops off, and it seems to me that having a weak haste buff for such a short period of time isn't great... I'm just not sure if the increased crit chance on HS over both exposes will outweight it.

Kurathikai · 02/10/12, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Muspel

For incredibly short windows of an execute phase (tendons on heroic Spine), is it worth skipping over Executioner in favor of Incite as Arms? (Yes, I know Fury is better for Spine, but I don't have an adequate offhand weapon yet). I've only been able to fit in 3-4 executes before the plate pops off, and it seems to me that having a weak haste buff for such a short period of time isn't great... I'm just not sure if the increased crit chance on HS over both exposes will outweight it.

For just that fight, it would be better to drop the points in Blood and Thunder to pick up 3/3 Incite. With good executioner management from finishing off the Amalgamation and using Heroic Leap to avoid the explosion, you can pick up some good damage from going into the tendon phase with a full executioner stack.

Jotawarr · 02/11/12, 6:27 AM

Hi guys! I'm a warrior fury. I was using SMF with 2 Morchok's Hand. And then, i got a Experimental Specimen Slicer Experimental Specimen Slicer - Item - World of Warcraft . Now i changed to TG, and i'm using the Slicer with Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps (LFR Edition). But i'm a little confuse. I have hit hating and expertise caps. What should I do? Take hit hating 27% or take mastery ?

Namitsoo · 02/11/12, 7:05 AM

Hello everyone.
I have some questions because iam going to play arms in the future as my 2nd Spec.
I saw that some encounters are better for Fury and others are better for Arms.
So what would you advice where should I play Fury and where is it better for Arms?I guess Fury is only better for: Morchok,Hagara,Ultraxion?
And another question is...If I switch at several encounters should I go to the city and reforge completely?Or is there a balance that is good for both specs?
Would be great if somebody has some good advices for me.

Armory is: Namitsoo @ Mannoroth - Game Guide - World of Warcraft

Kurathikai · 02/11/12, 7:26 PM

@Jotawarr: The stat priorities are still the same. Hit is still more important for TG than Mastery. Stack as much hit and crit as you can, even past the cap.
@Namitsoo: Assuming you can gear for both and are equally skilled at both, Fury will typically outperform Arms on Spine of Deathwing, but while Fury will have more boss damage on Hagara during feedback, Arms' AoE damage for Ice Tombs cannot be ignored. The stat priorities aren't all that different, but if you can, you should swap in more hit gear for Fury, as if you are optimized for Arms you will only have 11% hit with Precision. Reforging between bosses would only be something you do for progression. Your guild won't be happy waiting for you and it's pretty expensive. You still want to stack crit at the expense of mastery and haste. Arms has a significant advantage on Mor'chok, Zon'ozz, Yor'sajh, Ultraxion, Blackhorn, and Madness. The only fight that really favors Fury is Spine because of cooldown usage on Tendons.

junialum · 02/14/12, 11:24 AM

I'd like to ask about the spell 'Taunt'. I first tanked in BC where most bosses weren't taunt-able, my opening move was always with the highest threat ability (SS). I came back in late wotlk and am now playing DPS.

My tanks tell me taunt does more than just raise you to the top of the aggro table. They say there is a form of 'locked threat' that justifies them opening fights with taunt. (guaranteed threat for x secs)

I hope that this can be clarified. If there's a locked threat element to taunt, I'd like to know how long it lasts.