So I got my first weapon that's worth spending the gold on landslide. If I enchant my offhand weapon with landslide also, will I get a 2nd + ap or just increased proccing?

Tauren Racial for Prot Warri

Hi, can please anyone tell me how much the Tauren Racial gives @85? I did not find anything conducting a search. Thanks!

Because of all the changes (and maybe more upcoming changes) it's a little difficult to tell at the moment. Currently it's [License to Slay] and [Heart of Rage]. [Crushing Weight] is also very good but a fully stacked [License to Slay] gives more strength and has a passive that gives us our most beneficial secondary stat (for now at least). The stacks almost never fall off. In fact the only fight I can actually think of it falling off are on Atramedes. Even fights where there are moments where you can't attack it'll never be for more than 15 seconds (again, excluding Atramedes), unless you're not doing the fight efficiently or correctly. Though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here and zoned out and I'm forgetting a fight, though even if you drop your stacks, they build up extremely quickly, so unless it falls off many times, I just can't see how this trinket isn't BiS.

As for arms (again hard to tell with all the changes and if they add more changes), but it's currently [License to Slay] and [Heart of Rage]. Basically the same as fury for now. Though expertise seems to be a pretty hot topic so I'm not completely sure on [Heart of Rage]. Some say a dodge will just allow for an extra overpower (thus not losing as much damage as say getting a dodge as a fury warrior) and it's quite valuable now because missing a Mortal Strike means missing a LttS proc or a lower uptime on Wrecking Crew. There's also the issue of having your CS dodged, your highest potential burst ability. After the patch you only really need to land a Mortal Strike before LttS fades (not sure on the duration here, if someone can clarify. I've looked all over and can't find it).

Also consider next patch since Slam, Mortal Strike, and Execute are all affected by a pretty much permanent 30% damage increase (not to mention the 15% more damage Mortal Strike and Execute are receiving from War Academy) and Overpower isn't, this one change is gonna make expertise better (not saying better than other stats, just better than it is now for this situation). I'm also not a fan of dodging and gaining an extra Overpower because it makes the rotation very wonky, such as if you get a dodge right as your rend ticks, it's just a wasted Overpower. So basically you have to weigh out: Dodging a high damage attack and getting an Overpower with a high crit rate while also gaining extra crit (or whatever secondary stat you reforged your expertise to), or capping expertise to not miss a LttS buffed Slam, Mortal Strike (also losing a chance at a crit Mortal Strike for Wrecking Crew) or Execute (all of which are also buffed by War Academy), and not getting a dodged Colossus Smash, missing the 100% ARP for 6 seconds.

Back to the original topic: [Crushing Weight] is also a good choice once again; considering it's incredibly easy to hit cap as Arms and strength is our best stat. The only issue is the proc... Haste is one of our (if not the) weakest stat rating as an arms warrior. Personally I think you should stick to [License to Slay] and [Heart of Rage]. They both have amazing procs and if you have too much hit you can always reforge it into crit.

However I can see [Fury of Angerforge] being competitive, for arms, depending on how much they buff the proc ICD. Pure crit, our best secondary stat (after hit cap and maybe expertise cap) and a 1926 STR proc that aligns up exactly with Deadly Calm would make it amazing if stacking the buff wasn't horribly designed and the trinket wasn't complete garbage right now. It is currently being buffed to have a lower ICD on the proc and stack much easier, but I haven't had a chance to test this on the PTR, so anyone who has, feel free to chime in. Once again, for arms I also can see the new Strength Alchemist stone being incredibly good as well. Volatile Alchemist Stone - Items - Sigrie It's 351 STR (when gemmed) and 194 mastery (which you can reforge to crit, but still keep some mastery since mastery is a very solid stat for arms). Most likely not BiS but definitely worth the craft if you have bad luck with trinkets.

And just to clarify (this part is only concerning fury), this whole "best stat" thing is based on currently available gear levels. I know at a certain point stats will out scale others simply due to the way they scale, cap or interact with each other, or because of any patches that change things around. An example would be in full BiS heroic gear (gemmed and enchanted for max DPS and considering the new meta, so not mass amounts of hit gems), you're going to have around 21-22% hit. Eventually crit will out scale hit, and maybe mastery will even rise to a respectable amount (not anytime soon though), depending on itemization on new gear, since mastery is affected by so many different factors.

Landslide stacks yes. I've noticed multiple instances where I've had 2 landslide procs up.

When reporting scale factors, please also include the number of iterations used. If you are seeing that kind of variance with 10k iterations, please open an Issue on our site so that I can debug the problem.

Thanks for the great post Symphonia. I was actually doing some research and wanted to share with fellow Warriors that Consider (a very strong contributor to the EJ Death Knight Forums) revealed in his blog that the budget of the proc effects of the various trinkets are basically equal to the passive stat. So one way you can look at a trinket like Crushing Weight is it provides 363 Str and 363 Haste (obviously we should give extra points to Trinkets with "on use effects").

Source: Cata BiS – Frost 2H « Consider This…

Regarding trinket topic: Morsexy mentioned in the fury dps post that all proc trinkets are now set to an ICD of 5 times the proc duration. I have not found much information to support this, but IF its true this makes proc trinkets a very bad decision in my opinion.
Given they need some time to proc after the ICD they'll most likely end at the same CD as on-use-trinkets (6 times the effect duration), the effects have roughly the same strenght but they dont share the advantages of on use items: you can't align them with you bloodlust, golemblood or recklessness and you cant force their effect on boss phases where you either get a damage bonus (like head down phase on magmaw) or need a dps burst (like chimaeron <20%HP).
While stacking trinkets like License to slay will still have the advantage of giving you a steady boost (and beeing able to use their effect at the same time as the other trinket) proc trinkets right now have no advantage i can see.
So right now i'd take License to slay and (given the fix the proc ICD soon) Fury of Angerforge as BiS.

Proc trinkets also have x6 ICD, but their proc strength is 20% higher (just check lets say blue trinkets - on use ones have 1425 stat boost, proc ones have 1710). Exception is Fury of Angerforge which has the use as strong as other trinket procs - which is balanced by the stacking nature of the trinket.

Is this concerning arms or fury? In any case, if you don't raid, go for it. But if you can get the trinkets mentioned, then don't. To put it simply, it's a better trinket for fury than for arms. The proc damage is affected by % damage increases (such as enrage, berserker stance, and rude interruption. But not deathwish because that only modifies physical damage). You also hit far more often causing more procs. But just because it's better for fury, doesn't mean it's good. [Heart of Rage] and [Fury of Angerforge] are still better. Considering expertise is better than STR (until cap of course) and how good the STR proc is on [Heart of Rage] (even if you're gonna be using the normal version). The passive on [Darkmoon Card: Hurricane] is actually better than [Fury of Angerforge], but not by much if you reforge the crit to hit. It's the on-use that makes [Fury of Angerforge] so good, because you can time it with your deathwish (this varies with fight length though, depending on fight length you can time it with every one. Such as if you can only use 2 deathwishes in a fight).

For arms, the passive is decent but I still wouldn't use it over either of those trinkets. You're not gonna be seeing a lot of procs as arms. [Fury of Angerforge] can be timed with every single Deadly Calm, and the passive is great because crit is the best secondary stat for arms (after hit and expertise cap). Again, just about the same point I made for fury, [Heart of Rage] will help cap expertise. I won't argue about whether or not expertise or strength is better from a mathematical standpoint, but I'd still take the expertise over the strength (though I'm sure some people will argue with me) for the reasons in my post above. Not even gonna discuss the proc because I did earlier, and it should be obvious that it would be better than the proc from [Darkmoon Card: Hurricane].

As Shha posted, the ICD trinkets have much stronger procs (with the exception of this one due to the ramp up time). Depending on the fight it's very simple to attack until your trinkets proc (as most will proc at the beginning of a fight) then use your deathwish. Of course I added depending on the fight because it depends on fight length and whether or not you need to save your deathwish for a burn phase; though I can't think of a fight where you'll actually need your deathwish until late in the fight after the CD is up again anyway. Besides that this discussion is almost irrelevant. [Fury of Angerforge] is the only on-use (raiding) trinket available for us to use at the moment, and it isn't good enough to warrant using a non heroic version (the only exception is [License to Slay] because it's so perfectly itemized), since a heroic one does not exist (at least not currently in the game).

Though if you want to talk purely about non-heroic trinkets, I still don't see [Fury of Angerforge] being better than [Heart of Rage] because of the expertise. Getting a large amount of expertise allows you to either hit the cap faster, or go over the cap, and reforge extra expertise into hit, which is currently more valuable than crit (so basically you'll be getting the same amount of stats, number wise, but you'll be getting expertise and hit instead of crit). I haven't been able to test the buff to [Fury of Angerforge] myself though, so this may very well change and it may end up being better on certain fights, such as Chimaeron (like you mentioned). If the buff is good enough it'll basically come down to expertise vs crit and being able to time deathwish with a 1926 STR proc during burn phases. I didn't include hit because both trinkets can be reforged to the same amount of hit. Also there's the possibility of [Heart of Rage] proccing during the burn phase anyway. It's a 10% proc chance, and with how often we hit, I've noticed it proccing a few (around 5ish) seconds after I start attacking.

I normally find the answers in different posts or logs etc but it seems to be alot of different opinions on what to stack as fury pve so I'll ask here.

I see some top logs with warriors stacking hit as much as possible aiming at 27% and others just stopping at specials hit and going the normal str+crit route

Now with the current changes(so far) can I assume that str+crit will be the only route as specials will now hit harder? Some tests in the fury thread showed BT to be close to melee and RB swinging alot but at best close to BT.

Note the following is in regards to fury specifically:

It's important to remember that hit after the 8% for specials is valued over crit up to 27% or when you're comfortable with your rage generation. Your specials are not of any value to you without the rage to use them. I don't know if anyone has found the ideal (if any) hit goal to aim for so that you can maintain a steady rage stream. I know that at 10-11% hit there are times in which I have more than enough rage to maintain HS on CD, and there are times in which I am severely rage starved.

I will continue to drive my hit up until I can achieve a consistently satisfactory rage pool to draw from, but I expect that number to be much lower than 27%. I suspect that this value will probably be closer to 17%.

I think you underestimate the value of DMC:Hurricane's proc. The proc alone has consistently been 2-3% of my damage done as both arms and fury. That's generally between 400 and 650 dps alone. I'm not sure how it would stack up in a purely single target fight as arms, since the only times I'm arms is for heroic maloriak.

Maybe I'm underestimating the dps benefit 300 hit rating?

Arms for H. Maloriak: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
SMF Fury for H. Chimaeron: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
% of total damage looks pretty similar for TG as well.

You could very well be right. I haven't had the opportunity to test the trinket out myself, I've just discussed the proc with people who have purchased the trinket (obviously other raiders) and haven't seen any decent warrior parses, who use the trinket, to see the proc for myself, until now that is. But yes I can see it being incredibly good on H Maloriak as arms and would like to see how it stacks up on single target as arms. If you have any parses feel free to link them. However, I still feel that the hit from [License to Slay] (I'm assuming you're comparing the proc to the passive and vice versa) would be better than the proc since it allows you to reforge excess hit into crit, resulting in higher wrecking crew uptime and the other obvious benefits of crit. I'd be happy to be wrong though if you wouldn't mind testing out the trinket as arms on single target fights.

As far as I've heard, Rawr/SimCraft haven't been that reliable for fury. If someone has data to prove otherwise, feel free to send me a PM. Actually, last I checked Rawr wasn't even ready for fury, but that was a while ago. Not trying to argue with or insult the programmers of those utilities, I just haven't seen any data or reports showing that they're reliable. That's neither here nor there though, and I'd rather not turn this into an argument of their viability. I'll certainly give them a shot and try them out though. But, more to the point, yes it was on hands-on experience. After learning that dodging white attacks still generate rage (didn't know this for a while since I just started playing my warrior again in Cata), I tried running with very low expertise and experienced a fairly noticeable dps loss. It's really RNG since dodging a CS hurts. It's not a huge deal otherwise because as long as you continue generating rage, spend enough rage by using your highest DPR attacks, without going over 100 rage, it's not gonna make a big difference. But like I said it depends a lot on RNG, getting a string of dodges and almost rage capping yourself, causing you to use a low DPR attack will obviously negatively affect your dps. There's also other things to consider like lowering flurry uptime.

But yeah, I'll mess around with Rawr and SimCraft when I get a chance and see what I can come up with. I can see expertise and strength being very close, and even if they were, I'd still choose expertise because it's the "safe" option.

Some parses of myself before I had Chimaeron HC trinket:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

It's really good in aoe situations and still ~2% on single target situations. Personally I would go for VP points trinket+DCM:H until some hc trinkets.

Symphonia, Its not that hard to really believe that STR is better. Since wotlk our damage/Str went up less then twice. So same amount of STR gives over half the old benefit relatively. On other hand ratings went up FOUR times. Every rating basically halved in effectiveness compared to STR - at least for now. Its same for casters - INT is actually better then Hit, even below hit cap.

Having said that, the reason why i go exp capped, and why you noticed a dps loss, is generally twofold:

- We get more prone to RNG, which generally is bad. You want to do reliable good damage, not from being very low to pulling aggro from an attempt to another.

- Its simply harder to play. Thats why I get so much hit even though its not better then str - its EASIER play (granted its also due to the meta requiring more blues then reds ). Expertise low setup is just annoying and hard to play. It works ok on a dummy, its miserable experience in raids.

Could someone playing on the PTR tell me what kind of impact the HS nerf made to hit desirability? Since HS hits so low now and is really just a rage dump i see no point in stacking hit beyond the point where we can maintain a rotation with no downtime, which in a raid environment I don't think goes over 14%, maybe 15%.

Id say 8% hit is enough to keep rotation going, although that low hit is both actually hard to maintain, and causes other problems (lower enrage uptime, which is big now that RB is our main hitter, having to babysit rage bar more etc) - thats with moderate haste.

ANother problem is that you dont really have a lot of choice. Crit will be better then hit. Hit will be better then haste. Expertise is a non factor due to capping. So depending on how mastery lands we will either go still crit hit, as a priority, or crit/mastery.

Having said that - mastery suddenly seems really good. I didnt pay enough attention to it, assuming that buff from 4.7-5.6% wont be that big. But the onset of raging blow doing 22% or so of our dmg is pushing mastery so high up. Lets see hypothethically that we can get 10 mastery points and go from lets say 10 (current low mastery setup with t11 piece etc) to 20. Benefits would be:

Enrage from 15.6 to 21.2% - 4.85% dmg increase. Assuming 45% uptime (deathwish time not included) thats already around 2% damage increase.

Raging blow increase by 36% - assuming 22% damage contribution its around ~8% damage increase

Deathwish time damage increase by 8.4% , with 21% uptime but assuming around 1.5 time more damage due to stacking DW with other stuff, around 3% increase.

So 10 mastery would increase our damage by 13% or so. That is actually tempting (i took values with RB announced nerf, currently on PTR its more like 15%). That definitely can give crit a run for the money.

I'm just double checking this, you only need 8% hit for interrupting, and expertise is irrelevant right? Since spellcasting makes you unable to dodge and parry (This is the part I'm a little unsure about.), I assume expertise wouldn't be needed.

I was wondering about rage generation from damage taken in Cataclysm but can't seem to find any answers on that.I know it's based on your health,but how exactly does it work? (ie how much of your health do you need to lose to gain 100 rage?)

Does Berserker Rage still affect rage gain the same way as before?If I remember correctly it used to double your rage gain by damage taken prior to cataclysm.

Does the Gag Order silence work on the Chromatic Prototypes in the Nefarian Encounter?

Greetings.

I don't line in the US so I usually have a less than ideal ping.

When balancing stats, are there any that would give me the best bang for my buck when considering the fact my ping can get around 500-600ms on average?

Also, I have read a bit on the low hit/high crit, high mastery stat priority. Will that work on live or is it PTR theorycrafting?

Does anyone has an Idea of why is everyone gemming [Lifebound Alchemist Stone] with [Puissant Dream Emerald] ??? I gemmed it with [Fractured Amberjewel] as I'd rather 20 mastery over 30stam and 10crit, I don't see any use for the 10crit other than threat, but if I'm not having any issues with threat, why should I gem for the bonus?

Since you have the VP trinket, when it comes to the start of the pull, I wouldn't pop DW until the trinket STR is stacked out to the maximum.
Other than that, I'm pretty sure the priority should be BT > RB > CS > HS 60% Rage > Slam Procs.

Looking at your spec, as you're using TG I'd move one point from Incite to Deep Wounds.