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Old 12/29/10, 8:25 AM   #61
Garbak
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Sunstrider (EU)
1. How viable would [Tia's Grace] be for tanking?

Would it be utterly worthless? I am currently using [Throngus's Finger] + [Leaden Despair].

2. Is [Unsolvable Riddle] a viable trinket for tanking?

I understand that 62466 is a great trinket overall for the extra resistance that will come into good use but could [Unsolvable Riddle] still come to some sort of use?

3. While I am at it, How much agility do you need for 1% dodge?

Thanks in advance!

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Old 12/29/10, 10:54 AM   #62
Theezle
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warrior
 
Борейская Тундра (EU)
Warrior FAQ here specifies that, for Arms warrior, Crit is better than Expertise.

I've already got 8% Hit. (9-10% Crit and 9-10 Expertise). Should I completely head over to the Crit now?

And what should I say to all my guild members who keep telling me that getting 26 Expertise is more important?

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Old 12/29/10, 11:00 AM   #63
 Goatbert
Goatbert#1373
 
Goatbert's Avatar
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Garbak View Post
1. How viable would [Tia's Grace] be for tanking?

Would it be utterly worthless? I am currently using [Throngus's Finger] + [Leaden Despair].

2. Is [Unsolvable Riddle] a viable trinket for tanking?

I understand that 62466 is a great trinket overall for the extra resistance that will come into good use but could [Unsolvable Riddle] still come to some sort of use?

3. While I am at it, How much agility do you need for 1% dodge?

Thanks in advance!
The agility on [Unsolvable Riddle] would be 4% dodge if I'm not mistaken.

Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm)

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Old 12/29/10, 12:55 PM   #64
Musik
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Burning Legion
Originally Posted by ComMcNeil View Post
I think Avalanche is a good alternative to Hurricane. Dual wielded, avalanche contributes at about 200-300 dps, about 2-3% overall damage. Hurricane only gives 3.51% haste at level 85 and haste does only really modify white damage directly. Both procs, as far as my testing goes, do not have any internal CD, hurricane can procc three buffs at the same time when dual wielded, when wielding in only the main hand, it has an uptime of about 50% of at least one stack.
Personally I think avalanche is better, but I do not have math at hand to support this.

edit:
In this warriors log World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis avalanche even nets for ~416 dps.
Don't forget, haste and hit are our only sole means of rage regeneration. Getting 3 procs = 13.5% haste which increases rage generation significantly. I would rather have rage than a small DPS proc.

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Old 12/29/10, 1:51 PM   #65
ComMcNeil
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Azshara (EU)
Originally Posted by Musik View Post
Don't forget, haste and hit are our only sole means of rage regeneration. Getting 3 procs = 13.5% haste which increases rage generation significantly. I would rather have rage than a small DPS proc.
The main problem is, this proc is 13.5% haste at best, most of the time you will have 1, maybe 2 procs up (from the things I have gathered, only use hurricane on MH atm). Whitedmg is atm ~30%, so at 15k dps, it would be around 5000 dps, when you say you get around 5% haste roughly, you would be at 250 dps increase from whitedmg. The additional rage may lead to an increase in HS, but this is not necessarily reliable, as you may get the proc in a movement phase, you may get the proc during a time where you hit 100 rage due to AoE dmg and so on. The 400-500 dps from avalanche are there every time you have contact with the boss.
Also keep in mind, HS will be nerfed in the near future, meaning dumping rage with HS will be less of a dps gain than currently.

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Old 12/29/10, 4:39 PM   #66
Flame
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Arygos
Originally Posted by Theezle View Post
Warrior FAQ here specifies that, for Arms warrior, Crit is better than Expertise.

I've already got 8% Hit. (9-10% Crit and 9-10 Expertise). Should I completely head over to the Crit now?

And what should I say to all my guild members who keep telling me that getting 26 Expertise is more important?

Expertise isn't as important for arms because any dodges made by the mobs can be converted into an overpower. Having more expertise is still an overall dps gain but not as large a gain as you get from other stats.

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Old 12/30/10, 2:26 PM   #67
Andenthal
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Shan View Post
With the Thunderstruck talent, is Rend -> TC x 3 -> Shockwave -> TC x 3 -> Shockwave etc. a dps increase on single targets?

If so, how does it compare to Deep Wounds from a dps per talent point view?
No, using TC unnecessarily is a DPS loss. The extra 15% bonus to SW every 20 (or 17) secs does not make up for TC's very weak damage.

Deep Wounds is a larger single target DPS gain than Thunderstruck point for point. It's not going to make a huge difference in your overall DPS though. It's only worth it if you are running 2 tanking specs.

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Old 12/30/10, 2:42 PM   #68
Andenthal
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Synek View Post
I see that Parry is said to be better than dodge, due to them having the same conversion rate, DR's, and avoidance. I still see a lot of Prot Warriors in high end guilds reforging Parry to Dodge. Is there a need to get dodge to a certain amount, regardless of the fact that Parry is technically better? I also find it strange that these people gem for Parry, yet reforge parry to dodge.
It probably just has to do with the gear that's available - along with gemming availability.

Plate Armor - Items - World of Warcraft

Just a cursory glance, it looks like the only gear with Dodge on it, are the set pieces. Most non-set pieces appear to have Parry.

Dodge gems are yellow - but so are Mastery gems. It's currently better to get as much Mastery as you can, meaning that you're sacrificing Mastery to gem for Dodge (even with hybrid gems). Basically - there's no need/reason to gem for Dodge currently.

Therefore, when Parry gets really high, and your Dodge is still next to nothing, reforge some of it, for a decent Avoidance gain, for the least cost.

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Old 12/30/10, 3:26 PM   #69
Miloh
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Kel'Thuzad
It needs to be clarified that the above weapon enchant discussion is clearly directed only to FURY dps.

I am not convinced that Hurricane will outpace Avalanche for Arms, as I have seen white damage to only be ~12% of my dps. Of course, there is also the interaction with rage gain and Heroic Strike/Slam usage, but it still seems that Haste is clearly the weakest stat.

Hopefully simulations will be able to more accurately illustrate the interaction with Haste in the Cataclysm Arms environment, beyond the current speculation. This will also be helpful in determining the use(less)ness of the T11 dps set, as a whopping FOUR pieces have Haste.

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Old 12/30/10, 9:16 PM   #70
Symphonia
Von Kaiser
 
Symphonia's Avatar
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Dalvengyr
Originally Posted by Flame View Post
Expertise isn't as important for arms because any dodges made by the mobs can be converted into an overpower. Having more expertise is still an overall dps gain but not as large a gain as you get from other stats.
I really disagree. A dodged CS or dodged MS is much worse for dps now. You have to remember wrecking crew only procs off of mortal strike now and there's also lambs to the slaughter to consider.

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Old 12/31/10, 10:34 AM   #71
Ballam
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Dragonblight
Has anyone come up with a solid stat weighting for Prot?

Off the cuff I'm thinking just even up Dodge and Parry but I am not sure where to look for a sim or if those are even viable at the moment.

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Old 01/03/11, 1:47 AM   #72
ComMcNeil
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Azshara (EU)
Regarding weapon enchantments, I am really confused about the usefulness of Hurricane and Avalanche.
I have a good sample of bossfights from yesterday, where my fury companion (who has dual hurricane) only got around 5-10% more procs than me, who runs with hurricane/avalanche.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Does anyone have any more information on the hurricane proc? What is the proc chance and does it only proc on melee attacks or also dots (and probably other spells)?

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Old 01/03/11, 1:55 AM   #73
Jothay
Suit Up
 
Jothay's Avatar
 
Human Warrior
 
Stormrage
Weapon Enchants for Arms

I can't speak for Fury yet on the Avalanche vs Hurricane discussion as I don't have the modeling up to date yet but for Arms in my current build of Rawr (don't worry about those numbers I threw up in the other thread around the time of Cata's release, a lot of little formula changes have occurred since then).

As an Arms warrior, wearing optimized 372 (with a couple 359s), 7.96% Hit, 3.65% Expertise (Human using a Sword so 4.40%), 23.17% Crit, 53.15% Haste (has the Executioner proc factored in, that number may also still be a bit high in the calcs):

795.42 Landslide
439.00 Hurricane
357.30 Berserking
284.66 Executioner
226.86 Avalanche

The Nature Damage just doesn't stack up against the Crit, Haste or Attack Power from other enchants. If we had Nature boosting capabilities like an Enhancement Shaman then it would be a different story. Even if Haste comes down in my calcs over the next couple weeks, I doubt that Avalanche could overtake any of those other attacks.

Haste for Arms

With my newer calcs, Haste has definitely taken a larger role in Arms than it did pre-Cata. Back then Haste was literally garbage but now the amount of Rage generated by having more and more Haste in our new Normalization Era has placed it around the same values as Mastery in 372s. The particular character file I have right here (used in the above enchant section) places Crit, Haste, Mastery and Expertise in that order, without too much of a gap between them. Crit has the biggest gap of those 4. These numbers stay scaled the same (though individually change) when I have my MultiTargs flag on (roughly 8% uptime) and off.

I'll be continuing formula changes, tweaks here and there and taking suggestions on the Rawr website for things/tactics to try out so this could change.

Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

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Old 01/03/11, 9:11 AM   #74
ZeTodu
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Neptulon (EU)
I'vv seen Hurricane proc from Enraged Regeneration and even when i use bandage on me, also from Battle Shout.

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Old 01/04/11, 5:01 AM   #75
Krashnack
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Interrupt

Regarding on the hit/miss of shield bash and pummel, one of my druid friends made some interesting explanation. One of the druid theorycrafters claims that the kick portion of skull bash always hits, what is missing is the increased mana cost debuff. Here is the link for that:

[Feral-Bear] Cataclysm Release

Another player proved this is by checking the logs.

[Feral-Cat] Cataclysm Release

Can it be a bug for druid interrupt or is it really true that the spell is always interrupted even if you are under hit cap?

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