Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Warriors

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01/07/11, 3:06 PM   #91
hikarodesu
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Bonechewer
My question is, is there still the base 5% miss (that doesn't show up on the character sheet)? Or is it simply dodge + parry + block?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/07/11, 3:12 PM   #92
Andenthal
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Hyjal
Yes, there still appears to be a base 5% Miss.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/08/11, 8:53 PM   #93
 Goatbert
Goatbert#1373
 
Goatbert's Avatar
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Zul'Jin
Does shield slam still dispell? Tooltip doesn't mention it, can't find a talent that would add dispells to it, but I have 9 dispells on Ozruk. I thought they took it away.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/08/11, 9:20 PM   #94
greez
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Meta gem for Prot

I've seen a few posts considering +block value and +armor value but I failed to find anything regarding this one.
Is Effulgent Shadowspirit Diamond worth using? Basically, I suppose the question should be if theres enough spell-based damage in raids to make it worth using. Assuming we have enough mastery (and dodge+parry) stacked to neglect bosses' auto-attacks, would that meta gem be worth using to reduce damage from unavoidable (also unblockable) attacks we have to tank in raids? As far as I know those abilities are rarely physical-based and even if they are, armor we have without an additional 2% should be/is enough to deal with them.
Of course the question would be if that kind of damage is an object to magic damage mitigation, but thats what I'm hoping to find out.

Poland Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/11, 3:19 AM   #95
Tauftamir
Still not crusading
 
Tauftamir's Avatar
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Originally Posted by Goatbert View Post
Does shield slam still dispell? Tooltip doesn't mention it, can't find a talent that would add dispells to it, but I have 9 dispells on Ozruk. I thought they took it away.
The tooltip in the spellbook says it removes one magic effect, and it absolutely still does.

Originally Posted by Shaker View Post
Blacksen is actually a computer AI developed by IBM to tackle the world's hardest AI problem: Out-trolling Zyla.

England Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/11, 5:25 AM   #96
Kulehan
Glass Joe
 
Kulehan's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Arthas
I apologize if this is a dumb question, but with landsoul's spreadsheet on hold and the fact that I can't seem to successfully add this item to rawr, I'm coming here for a more expert opinion than my own.


Would it be worth buying [Boots of Sullen Rock]/[Gryphon Rider's Boots] over something such as [Greaves of Wu the Elder] for DPS purposes? The huge difference in strength makes me wonder if that is enough to outweigh the obviously useless parry that would need to be reforged and the mediocre mastery.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/11, 8:23 AM   #97
Stonestrike
Glass Joe
 
Stonestrike's Avatar
 
Orc Warrior
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Kulehan View Post
I apologize if this is a dumb question, but with landsoul's spreadsheet on hold and the fact that I can't seem to successfully add this item to rawr, I'm coming here for a more expert opinion than my own.


Would it be worth buying [Boots of Sullen Rock]/[Gryphon Rider's Boots] over something such as [Greaves of Wu the Elder] for DPS purposes? The huge difference in strength makes me wonder if that is enough to outweigh the obviously useless parry that would need to be reforged and the mediocre mastery.
If the mastery on the tank boots was Hit, then you might be on to something. But since the stats are hit/crit, aswell as a good socket bonus, I extremely doubt that those tanking boots would be an upgrade... even with reforging. Those dps boots are BiS until raids I believe, excluding the valor ones.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/11, 12:39 PM   #98
 Goatbert
Goatbert#1373
 
Goatbert's Avatar
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Tauftamir View Post
The tooltip in the spellbook says it removes one magic effect, and it absolutely still does.
Linked my Shield Slam skill in guild chat, about 3/4 the people saw the tooltip you're seeing, and 1/4 (myself included, obviously) saw the one I've attached. This occurs even after renaming my WTF & Interface folders so that it loads a stock UI. Pretty weird.

Edit: Looked at my backlog on IRC and Bryne figured it out - there is a casual tooltips ("Beginner Tooltips") option in the Help area of the Interface settings. Had no idea that even existed.
Attached Thumbnails
shieldslambug.jpg  

Last edited by Goatbert : 01/09/11 at 12:53 PM.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/11, 4:16 PM   #99
Reejerey
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Quel'dorei
In the constant effort to improve my dps I have recently downloaded SimC and started using it to generate some stat weights, but can't seem to get a set of stat weights that agree on a run to run basis. Using the same toon imported from armory I've gotten hit values between .47 and .57 (plotted vs strength) and crit values between .47 and .62 (again plotted vs str) with large variances in other stat values as well. Those numbers make me question the accuracy of all of the results. Wondering if any one else has noticed those inaccuracies? Just seeing a lot of conflicting info between hit and crit values across all of the message boards and wanted to find out what the real story was for me personally.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/11, 2:06 AM   #100
ceasefire
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Reejerey View Post
In the constant effort to improve my dps I have recently downloaded SimC and started using it to generate some stat weights, but can't seem to get a set of stat weights that agree on a run to run basis. Using the same toon imported from armory I've gotten hit values between .47 and .57 (plotted vs strength) and crit values between .47 and .62 (again plotted vs str) with large variances in other stat values as well. Those numbers make me question the accuracy of all of the results. Wondering if any one else has noticed those inaccuracies? Just seeing a lot of conflicting info between hit and crit values across all of the message boards and wanted to find out what the real story was for me personally.
Frankly I'd be a lot more inclined to question the accuracy of a simulation if all plotted values were identical every time, wouldn't you? I run 10,000 iterations of SimC for 4-5 trials and take the average of those for my weights. I think that should be quite accurate.

My question: I was wondering if there was a consensus list of BiS trinkets for Arms and Fury Warriors? It's difficult for me (math novice) to properly model what the different procs and use abilities of trinkets mean for actual DPS numbers so I have been focusing on trinkets that provide STR as a primary stat to my possible detriment.

Also, I haven't been able to see these figures for the new trinkets on any websites or programs.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/11, 8:39 PM   #101
gorybobcat
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Windrunner
So I got my first weapon that's worth spending the gold on landslide. If I enchant my offhand weapon with landslide also, will I get a 2nd + ap or just increased proccing?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 6:27 AM   #102
SirThrawn
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Arthas (EU)
Tauren Racial for Prot Warri

Hi, can please anyone tell me how much the Tauren Racial gives @85? I did not find anything conducting a search. Thanks!

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 9:47 AM   #103
Symphonia
Von Kaiser
 
Symphonia's Avatar
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Dalvengyr
Originally Posted by ceasefire View Post
Frankly I'd be a lot more inclined to question the accuracy of a simulation if all plotted values were identical every time, wouldn't you? I run 10,000 iterations of SimC for 4-5 trials and take the average of those for my weights. I think that should be quite accurate.

My question: I was wondering if there was a consensus list of BiS trinkets for Arms and Fury Warriors? It's difficult for me (math novice) to properly model what the different procs and use abilities of trinkets mean for actual DPS numbers so I have been focusing on trinkets that provide STR as a primary stat to my possible detriment.

Also, I haven't been able to see these figures for the new trinkets on any websites or programs.
Because of all the changes (and maybe more upcoming changes) it's a little difficult to tell at the moment. Currently it's [License to Slay] and [Heart of Rage]. [Crushing Weight] is also very good but a fully stacked [License to Slay] gives more strength and has a passive that gives us our most beneficial secondary stat (for now at least). The stacks almost never fall off. In fact the only fight I can actually think of it falling off are on Atramedes. Even fights where there are moments where you can't attack it'll never be for more than 15 seconds (again, excluding Atramedes), unless you're not doing the fight efficiently or correctly. Though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here and zoned out and I'm forgetting a fight, though even if you drop your stacks, they build up extremely quickly, so unless it falls off many times, I just can't see how this trinket isn't BiS.

As for arms (again hard to tell with all the changes and if they add more changes), but it's currently [License to Slay] and [Heart of Rage]. Basically the same as fury for now. Though expertise seems to be a pretty hot topic so I'm not completely sure on [Heart of Rage]. Some say a dodge will just allow for an extra overpower (thus not losing as much damage as say getting a dodge as a fury warrior) and it's quite valuable now because missing a Mortal Strike means missing a LttS proc or a lower uptime on Wrecking Crew. There's also the issue of having your CS dodged, your highest potential burst ability. After the patch you only really need to land a Mortal Strike before LttS fades (not sure on the duration here, if someone can clarify. I've looked all over and can't find it).

Also consider next patch since Slam, Mortal Strike, and Execute are all affected by a pretty much permanent 30% damage increase (not to mention the 15% more damage Mortal Strike and Execute are receiving from War Academy) and Overpower isn't, this one change is gonna make expertise better (not saying better than other stats, just better than it is now for this situation). I'm also not a fan of dodging and gaining an extra Overpower because it makes the rotation very wonky, such as if you get a dodge right as your rend ticks, it's just a wasted Overpower. So basically you have to weigh out: Dodging a high damage attack and getting an Overpower with a high crit rate while also gaining extra crit (or whatever secondary stat you reforged your expertise to), or capping expertise to not miss a LttS buffed Slam, Mortal Strike (also losing a chance at a crit Mortal Strike for Wrecking Crew) or Execute (all of which are also buffed by War Academy), and not getting a dodged Colossus Smash, missing the 100% ARP for 6 seconds.

Back to the original topic: [Crushing Weight] is also a good choice once again; considering it's incredibly easy to hit cap as Arms and strength is our best stat. The only issue is the proc... Haste is one of our (if not the) weakest stat rating as an arms warrior. Personally I think you should stick to [License to Slay] and [Heart of Rage]. They both have amazing procs and if you have too much hit you can always reforge it into crit.

However I can see [Fury of Angerforge] being competitive, for arms, depending on how much they buff the proc ICD. Pure crit, our best secondary stat (after hit cap and maybe expertise cap) and a 1926 STR proc that aligns up exactly with Deadly Calm would make it amazing if stacking the buff wasn't horribly designed and the trinket wasn't complete garbage right now. It is currently being buffed to have a lower ICD on the proc and stack much easier, but I haven't had a chance to test this on the PTR, so anyone who has, feel free to chime in. Once again, for arms I also can see the new Strength Alchemist stone being incredibly good as well. Volatile Alchemist Stone - Items - Sigrie It's 351 STR (when gemmed) and 194 mastery (which you can reforge to crit, but still keep some mastery since mastery is a very solid stat for arms). Most likely not BiS but definitely worth the craft if you have bad luck with trinkets.

And just to clarify (this part is only concerning fury), this whole "best stat" thing is based on currently available gear levels. I know at a certain point stats will out scale others simply due to the way they scale, cap or interact with each other, or because of any patches that change things around. An example would be in full BiS heroic gear (gemmed and enchanted for max DPS and considering the new meta, so not mass amounts of hit gems), you're going to have around 21-22% hit. Eventually crit will out scale hit, and maybe mastery will even rise to a respectable amount (not anytime soon though), depending on itemization on new gear, since mastery is affected by so many different factors.

Originally Posted by gorybobcat View Post
So I got my first weapon that's worth spending the gold on landslide. If I enchant my offhand weapon with landslide also, will I get a 2nd + ap or just increased proccing?
Landslide stacks yes. I've noticed multiple instances where I've had 2 landslide procs up.

Last edited by Symphonia : 01/12/11 at 10:32 AM.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 4:54 PM   #104
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Reejerey View Post
In the constant effort to improve my dps I have recently downloaded SimC and started using it to generate some stat weights, but can't seem to get a set of stat weights that agree on a run to run basis. Using the same toon imported from armory I've gotten hit values between .47 and .57 (plotted vs strength) and crit values between .47 and .62 (again plotted vs str) with large variances in other stat values as well. Those numbers make me question the accuracy of all of the results. Wondering if any one else has noticed those inaccuracies? Just seeing a lot of conflicting info between hit and crit values across all of the message boards and wanted to find out what the real story was for me personally.
When reporting scale factors, please also include the number of iterations used. If you are seeing that kind of variance with 10k iterations, please open an Issue on our site so that I can debug the problem.


Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 9:16 PM   #105
ceasefire
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Stormrage
Thanks for the great post Symphonia. I was actually doing some research and wanted to share with fellow Warriors that Consider (a very strong contributor to the EJ Death Knight Forums) revealed in his blog that the budget of the proc effects of the various trinkets are basically equal to the passive stat. So one way you can look at a trinket like Crushing Weight is it provides 363 Str and 363 Haste (obviously we should give extra points to Trinkets with "on use effects").

Source: Cata BiS – Frost 2H « Consider This…

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Warriors

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hunter Simple Questions / Simple Answers: Cataclysm Edition Narcosleepy Hunters 355 07/16/12 2:23 PM
Shaman: Simple Questions / Simple Answers -- Cataclysm Edition Jessamy Shamans 117 04/14/11 9:03 AM