First off: Made chardev profiles since it's easier for me to show reforging and gemming. If it's a problem, I can make a table with links to all the gear and gems and information with reforging. I also included no professions because I'd like to discuss what our optimal gear is, not what the best professions are. Considering professions just add more strength I don't think it'd change our BiS depending on what professions we have.
Anyways these aren't set in stone, thus the "Discussion" in the title. And remember things are subject to change as patch notes are updated and changed.

I added two different sets for TG as I haven't really simmed enough to predict if hit will outpace mastery, like it has with SMF. The secondary stats are still prioritized correctly for the more important ones.

Fury Priority	Stat
1st	8% hit
2nd	26 Expertise
3rd	Crit
4th	Mastery or Hit
5th	Haste

HEROIC BIS	DPS	Patch
Fury: Titan's Grip Mastery Heavy	27,659	4.0.6
Fury: Titan's Grip Hit Heavy	27,635	4.0.6
Fury: Single-Minded Fury	27,217	4.0.6
Arms	26,636	4.0.6

NORMAL BIS

Fury: Titan's Grip Mastery Heavy

Fury: Titan's Grip Hit Heavy

Fury: Single-Minded Fury

Arms

Notes:

• The random enchantments to things such as the Cloudburst Ring can cause wrong stats to show up in chardev when you reforge them.
• Again, this is not a definite BiS list. Until more testing, simulating, spreadsheeting and what have you, have been done, this is currently just for discussion and feedback.
• Let me know if you have any suggestions.

Could really use some suggestions and input. If you have a better idea of reforging, different gear, enchants, gems, etc., feel free to post constructive comments.

I don't know if they'll ever introduce heroic trash drops, however for arms I wouldn't go for the expertise cap before we have solid data on its value thus [Heart of Rage] might not be ideal even against lower level items.
[Fury of Angerforge] has the issue of not being readily available at the start and [License to Slay] is a solid 380 str stacking up in a very small time with hit being very high value and reforgeable to our best secondary. [Crushing Weight] might be worse than both of those if our haste->dps ratio is what we can expect from a 60%AP HS. [Darkmoon Card: Hurricane] with its static str and the proc working on mastery and multitarget abilities is surely competitive and I wouldn't exclude it totally (may have different values for different fights).

I'm not really sure to be completely honest. After checking a few sites, I can't find any information on what the actual bonuses are. If you have the stats feel free to post them.
I think it really depends on how long the fight is for the effectiveness of [Fury of Angerforge], depending on your second trinket of course. Obviously you would rather time Deadly Calm with the proc from [Heart of Rage] than [Fury of Angerforge]. But then it depends on how procs lineup for future Deadly Calms. True enough on the matter of expertise. Though, I still believe being able to reforge the expertise and the proc just from pure ilevel might beat out the lower trinkets. I didn't even consider the AoE/mastery effects on [Darkmoon Card: Hurricane]. I'm probably going to get one and try it out as arms next reset since we may be trying H: Maloriak anyway. I'll add it to the list for now. Thank you for your input.

Item suffix - Wowpedia - Your wiki guide to the World of Warcraft is the most accurate resource I've seen regarding the random enchantments. For some reason, battle.net, Wowhead, etc. don't display them properly, and omit one or both of the secondary stats. For example, my armory shows neither the expertise on my legs, or the fact that they are reforged. Earthshaker (crit/hit) or Landslide (hit/exp) pieces are excellent right now, and the Cloudburst rings and Sky Strider belts are competitive for being best in slot as well as the legs.

Thanks for this, just wish there was a way to implement it into the chardev profile, to see how it affects our overall stat caps and what needs to be reforged.

Doesn't surprise me at all. I actually made a similar post on another forum regarding something extremely close. In short I just mentioned that while crit may be slightly better than hit, hit seems to be the most consistent and safest way to increase DPS. Shha put it better than I could have in the simple questions thread when he said:

• "Its simply harder to play. Thats why I get so much hit even though its not better then str"
• "We get more prone to RNG, which generally is bad. You want to do reliable good damage, not from being very low to pulling aggro from an attempt to another."

Except replace str with crit. By top furys do you mean actually top parses or do you just mean in top guilds? It's hard to tell since most top guilds aren't posting their WoL so it's difficult to see how they're actually doing. And I've found if someone not stacking hit is ranking high on WoL it's usually due to RNG. I spent a few hours going through WoL parses of top warriors and seeing some with significantly less hit than I have but missed as much as I should be missing and some getting the benefit of tricks.

I don't see mastery rising that high since they already changed the RB change from 145% to 120%, so we're only talking about a 10% increase in weapon damage (not gonna go into the math of our other %damage effects, just stating the RB change). And the mastery buff wasn't big enough to warrant extra haste for higher enrage uptime (assuming this is what you meant of course) or favoring mastery. Don't get me wrong, it'll increase their value but crit will still yield much more benefit due to having a secondary effect of more haste and overall more damage to everything. As far as hit goes, I'm in the same boat as you, I haven't been able to do any testing on the PTR, but everything seems to point to hit being less valuable, at least compared to other stats.

Apologies if this post seemed rude, was trying to get my points across but after reading it seemed a bit condescending and that was not my intention. Thank you for your input.

On a related note, if someone knows a different site or tool that will allow me to select gear, reforge, gem, etc. it and actually has the Conclave drops implemented correctly, please let me know.

I took a minute and input the gears in the Arms suggested BiS list into WoWReforge. I might have hit both caps on the head but for the moment, double-stat optimization is limited to 12 out of the possible 17 slots due to the massive increase in search space. But with single-stat optimization on hit, then some manual tweaking, I got pretty close: (drag and drop link)
http://www.shackpics.com/files/Possi...gdwrx80fpe.png
This assumes the gems slotted and no enchants or socket bonuses that have exp or hit on them.

Since I was quoted i feel obliged to add some points:

- Its not set in stone. Yes hit play is easier but of course there is a certain treshold where you want to put extra effort into your play. However lets look at it closer. Using the figured from this thread lets see for SEP values posted.

Crit vs Hit

Extra 1200 hit rating (10% hit) vs 1200 crit rating. 0.04 STR diff per point (using values from post in this thread - feel free to add yours) . 48 STR benefit from going crit. 48 str in raid is less 1% of our STR. Its definitely less then 1% of our dps - in the realm of 0.5% dps. If you do 20k, the difference will be 100 dps.

So we talk about a theoretical gain of 100 dps, vs actually a VERY noticable rage generation. Difference between lets say 8% hit and 18% hit. Just as yourself a question - can you make up 100 dps, by simply being more free to look around and find good target switch opportunities, being more reliable to catch those interrupts for Rude interruption etc? I feel yes.

Now if we talk about STR vs hit, we talk about gain of 380 STR or a good 700-800 dps increase. Now that amount of dps is harder to compensate by having "easier" play. So I will definitely switch to STR gemming come patch - right now I feel being able to use good meta by adding hit gems compensates a lot of those 700-800 dps, and decided to stick with hit - but again, thats only because of current meta problems.

Thanks for your input. This was exactly my thinking and why I gemmed/reforged the way I did in the profiles.
I'm not sure on the viability of SMF come next patch, but currently it's not as good as TG. It's hard to evaluate the changes effects on SMF unless I really dig through WoL since it's not possible to filter through the top parses by TG vs SMF. The only way to really find a parse is looking at the actual log, which makes it very annoying. Anyhow, since the patch has both a negative and positive impact on SMF vs TG, without actual good parses to evaluate, it's difficult to tell the viability.

On that note, I could add a SMF BiS gear list but currently the only thing that would be different is changing the weapons to [Lava Spine]x2 and reforging the haste to hit. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh and before I forget:
Managed to snag one and will go arms this reset to do some testing on the trinket as well as looking through some arms parses to do some math on how it matches up to other trinkets.

Unheeded Warning on the PTR. The proc changed to "Your melee attacks have a chance to increase your weapon damage by 680 for 10 seconds". How does this effect our BIS trinkets if at all? With an uptime of 10 seconds on the proc the ICD would be 50 seconds.

I am not really a numbers type person but this would effect (for Arms and Fury):

-Autoattacks
-Raging Blow (scales with Mastery for RB)
-Colossus Smash
-Slam
-Whirlwind (situational)
-Overpower
-Mortal Strike
-Rend
-Bladestorm
-Deep Wounds (Would the increased weapon damage stick and roll through as long as you keep the DOT up? Not sure the interaction with Deep Wounds and weapon damage increase. Is it anything like tricks and lock dots used to be, etc?)

(I am probably missing some but HS and BT are based off of AP)

There any way to theorycraft how this trinket will match up against the others (including heroic trinkets) for purpose of BIS gearing?

Fury:

Offpiece
Pauldrons of the Great Ettin (H)
Set
4 piece
Other gear
Glittering Epidermis (H)
Bracers of the Mat'redor
Belt of Absolute Zero (H) or Sky Strider Belt of the Earthshaker/Earthfall (H) {Crit/Hit or Haste}
Massacre Treads (H)
Cloudburst Ring of the Earthshaker/Earthfall (H) {Crit/Hit or Haste}
Dargonax's Signet
Weps
Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood (H)
Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood (H)
Trinks
Fury of Angerforge {Crushing Weight is bad}
Heart of Rage (H)
Crossfire Carbine

Self-Buffed Stats (Raid)
AP 12122 (14923)
Speed 3.63 (3.3) [2.64]
Haste 4.69% (5.16%)
Hit 9.67%
Crit 25.61% (25.75%)
Exp 25.77
Mastery 16.89 [94.54%]



reforge to crit and mastery out of hit, extra exp, and haste
gem STR or STR/Hit or STR/Crit depending on socket bonus

This build is based off of an adolescent 4.0.6 spreadsheet build. For the being extremely low on hit, I guess it would be viable if one simply layed off the HS key and only hit it if one was in danger of going too far passed 100 rage.

LeMartin added support for the random enchantment properties some time ago. After equipping the item, you can select a suffix on the enchanting tab, above the filter options that are there for any item.