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Old 01/17/11, 8:10 AM   #16
landsoul
Myrmidon Champion
 
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Worgen Warrior
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by ComMcNeil View Post
Can you elaborate more on the stat weights then for 4.0.6? Based upon your statement, I guess after STR, its Hit (<8) > Expertise (<26) > Crit > Mastery > Hit (<27) > Haste? Question is, if we are that low on haste AND hit, how will it play out. I have ~19% hit currently and still get miss streaks. (even 6 times miss yesterday...)

edit: I also did a chardev of Landsouls BiS list chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta . I am not sure, if everything is correct, as he left out a few slots and I had to guess. Also my stats are not identical to his.
Legs are supposed to be the set legs, ring/belt are of the earthbreaker, not earthshaker. Also remember blue gems are no longer necessary for Meta activation.

If you try to sit at around 65 rage (Two connects will put you right at 100) and not HS until you go over you will be fine with low hit just hitting BT/RB/CS. It will take you 4-5 seconds to run completely dry from 65 rage without outside source.

And like I said, the stats I put there won't be exactly right. Also, those random enchantments may not even exist on those items either... I was just speculating they did. We'll have to find out exactly what random enchantments exist and what don't.

Last edited by landsoul : 01/17/11 at 8:22 AM.

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Old 01/17/11, 9:34 AM   #17
ComMcNeil
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Azshara (EU)
Regarding Meta and so on, yes, purely STR will probably yield better results so I updated the profile with new gemming, taking only +10 STR when I can get it with an orange gem, ignoring "blue +10 STR bonuses". Chardev did also not include "of the Earthbreaker" and according to a wowhead comment, the 4 suffixes from wowpedia are also listed on the official wow site, so maybe not every possible suffix is available for epics.

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Old 01/17/11, 1:28 PM   #18
Druckers
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by landsoul View Post
Legs are supposed to be the set legs, ring/belt are of the earthbreaker, not earthshaker. Also remember blue gems are no longer necessary for Meta activation.

If you try to sit at around 65 rage (Two connects will put you right at 100) and not HS until you go over you will be fine with low hit just hitting BT/RB/CS. It will take you 4-5 seconds to run completely dry from 65 rage without outside source.

And like I said, the stats I put there won't be exactly right. Also, those random enchantments may not even exist on those items either... I was just speculating they did. We'll have to find out exactly what random enchantments exist and what don't.
I don't believe that Of the Earthbreaker random enchant exists. I did quite a bit of searching and it exists here:
Item suffix - Wowpedia - Your wiki guide to the World of Warcraft

However it may not be implemented into the game according to:
Cloudburst Ring - Game - World of Warcraft

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Old 01/17/11, 2:13 PM   #19
Symphonia
Von Kaiser
 
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Worgen Warrior
 
Dalvengyr
Originally Posted by landsoul View Post
Fury gear list

Self-Buffed
AP 12122
Speed 3.63 / 3.63
Haste 4.69%
Hit 8.05%
Crit 25.61%
Exp 25.77
Mastery 17.97


reforge to crit and mastery and any hit or exp you need
gem STR or STR/Hit or STR/Crit depending on socket bonus or need

This build is based off of an adolescent 4.0.6 spreadsheet build. For the being extremely low on hit, I guess it would be viable if one simply layed off the HS key and only hit it if one was in danger of going too far passed 100 rage.
Awesome. Is there anyway you can PM me a copy of this or something similar? I'd just like to take a look at the reforging you've done and make a table with all the gear + gems + reforging needed. I'd also like to see how much of a DPS loss it would be to prioritize hit over crit and mastery, which may cause me to make a hit reforged set up and bare minimum hit setup for those who are willing to risk the potential DPS loss for safer rage generation. And I'm assuming you have the Earthbreaker items implemented correctly? But I understand it's not complete (so you probably don't want people looking at it) and not entirely accurate, so if you have a problem with it, no worries.

Originally Posted by ComMcNeil View Post
Regarding Meta and so on, yes, purely STR will probably yield better results so I updated the profile with new gemming, taking only +10 STR when I can get it with an orange gem, ignoring "blue +10 STR bonuses". Chardev did also not include "of the Earthbreaker" and according to a wowhead comment, the 4 suffixes from wowpedia are also listed on the official wow site, so maybe not every possible suffix is available for epics.
I'd still go with blue +10 STR bonuses. Gemming pure strength gives you 40 STR, while getting the bonus gives you 30 STR and 20 hit. Even if you're going for a minimum hit setup, this will allow you to reforge excess hit into crit. In other words, unless somehow strength has more then double the value of crit or you can reforge all your excess hit anyway while maintaining cap, it would still be worth it.

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Old 01/18/11, 10:57 AM   #20
Symphonia
Von Kaiser
 
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Worgen Warrior
 
Dalvengyr
Originally Posted by Bloodhawker View Post
LeMartin added support for the random enchantment properties some time ago. After equipping the item, you can select a suffix on the enchanting tab, above the filter options that are there for any item.
Just caught this now, thank you.

Originally Posted by Druckers View Post
I don't believe that Of the Earthbreaker random enchant exists. I did quite a bit of searching and it exists here:
Item suffix - Wowpedia - Your wiki guide to the World of Warcraft

However it may not be implemented into the game according to:
Cloudburst Ring - Game - World of Warcraft
Not sure how reliable this is since it's not even showing both secondary stats. I guess we'll have to wait and see or if someone who actually has a piece or has seen someone with one could post.

Anyways taking what Landsoul said into consideration this is what I came up with myself:
chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta

Notes:
  • I'm not sure why but after saving the profile I somehow gained 129 hit rating. I have both tabs open from before I saved and after and none of the other stats changed, only my hit. After messing around with it, it's acting like I didn't reforge the belt+ring everytime I save it. I've tried un-reforging it and I don't gain hit, then I lose hit after I reforge, but after saving it again I still gain the hit back. Before I saved it I had 9.67% hit, just as Landsoul does from his spreadsheet.
  • The STR meta is not currently available on chardev.
  • I haven't seen confirmation that of the Earthshaker exists so things are subject to change.
  • Again, this is not a definite BiS list. Until more testing, simulating, spreadsheeting and what have you, have been done, this is currently just for discussion and feedback.
  • Let me know if you have any suggestions.

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Old 01/18/11, 2:59 PM   #21
Runtime
Piston Honda
 
Troll Warrior
 
Hyjal
Would [Belt of Absolute Zero] be better than the Of the Earthshaker Belt due to its extra crit and red socket requirement?.

you would gain 10 str and 5 hit at the cost of 4 mastery and 9 crit if you reforge hit to mastery.

Last edited by Runtime : 01/18/11 at 3:23 PM.

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Old 01/18/11, 3:25 PM   #22
Nimchip
Glass Joe
 
Human Warrior
 
Black Dragonflight
Originally Posted by Runtime View Post
Wouldnt [Belt of Absolute Zero] be better than the Of the Earthshaker Belt due to its extra crit and red socket requirement?.

you would gain 10 str and 5 hit at the cost of 4 mastery and 9 crit if you reforge hit to mastery.
If of the earthbreaker enchant doesn't exist, then it should be right up there with earthshaker. 180 hit/crit versus 191crit 171 hit. So yea, it depends on if the crit belt does exist (and using crit > hit over 8% like landsoul is) but it's definately one of the top pieces.

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Old 01/18/11, 3:49 PM   #23
landsoul
Myrmidon Champion
 
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Worgen Warrior
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by Runtime View Post
Would [Belt of Absolute Zero] be better than the Of the Earthshaker Belt due to its extra crit and red socket requirement?.

you would gain 10 str and 5 hit at the cost of 4 mastery and 9 crit if you reforge hit to mastery.
It definitely would! Thanks for catching that.

Actually, both belts are extremely similar in DPS due to the difference in their socket bonus and reforging in general. However, having Belt of Absolute Zero having a red socket instead of yellow, makes up a little bit of difference. The difference is in the order of about 10 dps out of 27k+ so I would say that in the scope of things they are the same.

Also, the Crit/Haste belt is only 2 dps behind Belt of Absolute Zero. So I guess you could get any of the three belts!

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Old 01/18/11, 4:23 PM   #24
Volgon
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Khadgar
On the topic of trinkets, how much worse would Crushing Weight be compared to Fury of Angerforge and Heart of Rage? I obtained the normal mode version of it last night (I imagine the stat weights will remain relatively the same between BiS heroic and normal mode gear levels) and while Haste is not that great it does provide a large increase in attack speed. I am also partial to trinkets that provide passive Strength over other stats as I feel a wasted or diminished Strength proc (on movement or something like that) is worse than a wasted/diminished Haste proc.

Also, is License to Slay no longer a contender for our BiS trinkets? Are we going to be forgoing hit/haste in 4.0.6 because of the low rage requirements for a rotation that doesn't include Heroic Strike much?

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Old 01/18/11, 11:03 PM   #25
MilkTheTank
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Drak'thul
Originally Posted by landsoul View Post
Fury:

Offpiece
Pauldrons of the Great Ettin (H)
Set
4 piece
Other gear
Glittering Epidermis (H)
Bracers of the Mat'redor
Belt of Absolute Zero (H) or Sky Strider Belt of the Earthshaker/Earthfall (H) {Crit/Hit or Haste}
Massacre Treads (H)
Cloudburst Ring of the Earthshaker/Earthfall (H) {Crit/Hit or Haste}
Dargonax's Signet
Weps
Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood (H)
Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood (H)
Trinks
Fury of Angerforge {Crushing Weight is bad}
Heart of Rage (H)
Crossfire Carbine

Self-Buffed Stats (Raid)
AP 12122 (14923)
Speed 3.63 (3.3) [2.64]
Haste 4.69% (5.16%)
Hit 9.67%
Crit 25.61% (25.75%)
Exp 25.77
Mastery 16.89 [94.54%]



reforge to crit and mastery out of hit, extra exp, and haste
gem STR or STR/Hit or STR/Crit depending on socket bonus

This build is based off of an adolescent 4.0.6 spreadsheet build. For the being extremely low on hit, I guess it would be viable if one simply layed off the HS key and only hit it if one was in danger of going too far passed 100 rage.
Sorry, looking at this:
Item suffix - Wowpedia - Your wiki guide to the World of Warcraft

Aren't we possibly looking for 3 sets of stats on the Throne gear?

Of the Earthbreaker: crit mastery
Of the Earthfall: haste crit
Of the Earthshaker: hit crit

Which means you could get:
chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta

Str: 10545
Hit: 607 (8.05%)
Crit: 2907 (23.79%)
Exp: 811 (27/27)
Haste: 718 (5.607%)
Mastery: 1551 (8.6512)

I know these values don't match up, but I couldn't equip throne of the four winds loot in crit/mastery
Also, the crit/mastery should be better than the belt of absolute zero.

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Old 01/19/11, 12:25 AM   #26
Symphonia
Von Kaiser
 
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Worgen Warrior
 
Dalvengyr
Originally Posted by hellord View Post
[Darkmoon Card: Hurricane] with its static str and the proc working on mastery and multitarget abilities is surely competitive and I wouldn't exclude it totally (may have different values for different fights).
Posted a log of trying out the trinket tonight at Arms DPS: 4.0 and Cataclysm if anyone wants to comment (posted it there because I felt it'd be more appropriate).

Also I will update the belt to [Belt of Absolute Zero] tomorrow when I get home from class and see if I can fix that annoying hit bug as well.

Originally Posted by Volgon View Post
On the topic of trinkets, how much worse would Crushing Weight be compared to Fury of Angerforge and Heart of Rage? I obtained the normal mode version of it last night (I imagine the stat weights will remain relatively the same between BiS heroic and normal mode gear levels) and while Haste is not that great it does provide a large increase in attack speed. I am also partial to trinkets that provide passive Strength over other stats as I feel a wasted or diminished Strength proc (on movement or something like that) is worse than a wasted/diminished Haste proc.

Also, is License to Slay no longer a contender for our BiS trinkets? Are we going to be forgoing hit/haste in 4.0.6 because of the low rage requirements for a rotation that doesn't include Heroic Strike much?
A wasted haste proc is actually probably worse than a wasted strength proc depending of course on how much of it is wasted (not saying in terms of overall DPS but in terms of % lost from the stat). At least if you get part of the strength proc you're guaranteed to get at least one attack off with extra AP. You see no benefit from haste unless you actually attack long enough so it grants you an extra attack or gives you just enough rage to use an extra attack.

No [License to Slay] will not be a contender because we get enough hit already just from the best available gear and even after reforging all hit. Yes read a few posts above and you'll see that running low hit will be theoretical dps gain.

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Old 01/19/11, 1:23 AM   #27
Nimchip
Glass Joe
 
Human Warrior
 
Black Dragonflight
Sorry, looking at this:
Item suffix - Wowpedia - Your wiki guide to the World of Warcraft

Aren't we possibly looking for 3 sets of stats on the Throne gear?

Of the Earthbreaker: crit mastery
Of the Earthfall: haste crit
Of the Earthshaker: hit crit

Which means you could get:
chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta

Str: 10545
Hit: 607 (8.05%)
Crit: 2907 (23.79%)
Exp: 811 (27/27)
Haste: 718 (5.607%)
Mastery: 1551 (8.6512)

I know these values don't match up, but I couldn't equip throne of the four winds loot in crit/mastery
Also, the crit/mastery should be better than the belt of absolute zero.
Yes but Earthbreaker has yet to drop, so people are writing it off. Even if it does exist Absolute Zero is 2nd best, with Earthfall being a third. If it doesn't then Absolute Zero ties with Earthshaker and Earthfall would be 2nd.

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Old 01/19/11, 5:34 PM   #28
Toxicfallout
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warrior
 
Boulderfist
I wouldn't put down haste so quickly and disregard as it highly sought after stat. [Crushing Weight] could still have potential to be BiS due to the potential Rage generation from what Haste offers.

For example: We see a large benefit from a Bloodlust affect, no? We are able to due more specials even with 9% hit rating due to this massive increase to haste.
~ Is less/more due to scaling
3.60 Stock Weapon Swing(SWS) + 30% haste = 2.52~ respectfully.

So first you factor your self, haste and flurry (granted it's up the entire time)
Assume you have 9% haste, unbuffed.
SWS + 9% = 3.32~ current Weap Swing

Then during combat.
Flurry 25% haste for whites *next 3 swings. 3.32 + 25% = 2.49~ *3
Not too shabby here without a BL effect.
Then you add the proc off CW, normal is 15~% (Half of BL effect)
2.49 = 15% = 2.11~
Pretty nice I'd say. You can imagine with all that, plus raid buffs and then a BL, it's insane.
Even though CW proc is RNG, like all :Equips: It's a good percentage of haste to your white rage generator.

The ingame character/doll screen shows haste calculating to overall dps; as stated previously.
I do understand the coeff of Crit per point is better than haste per point; it doesn't mean haste should be ignored entirely.
I'm saying, if you can produce a BL like effect from haste procs/ internal haste; then maybe it's a good investment to those with very low hit. Or low hit period.

I will continue testing, like always.

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Old 01/19/11, 8:07 PM   #29
Anuji
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Warrior
 
Blackrock (EU)
The overall idea of haste looks incredibly nice, but (and this is a big BUT) if you get Rage due to Enviromental dmg it lowers the efficienty by an incredibly high amount.

If i recall it right, there was a calculation in the old Fury-discussion thread where it was pinpointed to a certain amount of Enviromental -Rage income where haste gets beaten.

In an static fight where u get no dmg from anything and your rage is effectivly only produced by whiteys then haste would be THE perfect stat, but thats nowhere near the reality in actual raidcontent.. you get constantly half blown up by anything.

With that Rage-income going from Enviromental dmg haste just isn't that great.
Also if you get that RNG-baste "equip:" procc in a situation where get half blown up, it only effects your whitehits.. due to the fact that you can't run out of rage for those specific few seconds.

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Old 01/19/11, 9:21 PM   #30
Toxicfallout
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warrior
 
Boulderfist
Very true.
That would be the only case to where haste is a poor stat.

Still something I'm crunching out. There are plenty of times where I have large strings of misses and wish I had much more haste to get over that hill. I'm currently sitting at 13-14% hit rating.

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