After some Testing on PTR 2x Ashkandi is clearly on Top of the Charts, mainly because of RB Buff and Bloodsurge Buff...

Strangely I saw quite a Difference on Flurry Uptime, with 2xAshkandi vs 2xShalug'doom there was a Difference of 9% over all... Ashkandi + Shalug'doom was even 15% behind 2xAshkandi... A guildmate mentioned something about 4 Flurry Stacks when you wield two Weapons with the same Speed.
I thought that was fixed sometimes or am I wrong?

@Nate1492 You are right and wrong at the same time.... ragegen is normalized, but you have, as i mentioned above, less Flurry uptime and that is the Reason for the lesser ragegen.

It´s still in the game, as two weapons with same speed hit 4 times in one flurry span as they hit simultaneous, which they don´t when the speed differs.

Ragnernon did you use a different gear-setup for 2x Shalug opposed to 2x Ashkandi?

My gear was based on the low hit BiS list, heroic and nonheroic items mixed.... i reforged for the caps with both weapons and switching boots to the random droping ones when wielding 2xShalug

How practical is it to line up weapon swings in combat? At the pull, sure, no problem, but what about on target swaps? Plus are you considering the rage spikes this could cause into the DPS discussion?

I know on a training dummy, its easy to line up swings, and I suppose one could argue that even if they don't line up, what is the advantage of not trying. I would like to see comparisons assuming both situations happen (4 flurry swings, lined up swing timers) and non-lined up swings.

So, are these 4 flurry swings to be assumed as part of the decision on which weapons to take? Should Fury always strive to take two weapons with equal speed?

I guess this really just comes back to numbers, how much DPS is lost/gained in each situation.

I think you misunderstood something in the question by Nate. He doesn't want to know something about the overall choice off Weapon by it's weapon speed. He wants to know whether to always aim for weapons of the same speed because of the possibility of swing time sync or to choose weapons because of everthing else (Stats, DPS push etc.).

Your "nearly inconsequential" .1-.2 weapon speed range makes it impossible to sync your weapons swings. So the choice is much more consequential then you stated!

I played around with the reforging on the low hit build and was able to gain 82 crit rating and 18 mastery at the loss of 102 haste rating and 2 rating lost to expertise.

I also updated the meta and wrist enchant.

chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta

Edit: I actually ran this build and the low hit build in the first post through 10,000 iterations of SimC and got an interesting result. In my build the value of Hit became much higher than crit.

Build in the first post

Str 2.88
Exp 2.2
Hit 1.92
Crit 1.88
Mastery 1.62

My build

Str 2.82
Hit 2.32
Exp 2.31
Crit 1.85
Mastery 1.57

It also appears that my build was a dps loss on a Patchwerk like fight.

Considering haste is worth about 10-20% less then hit depending on your hit value, the numbers you posted would suggest haste being on par with crit in 1st post, and higher then crit/mastery in 2nd. Makes the reforging kind of iffy.

My guess would be the crit > hit part that you already mentioned and maybe the fact that you can trigger the on use effect with Deathwish, colossus smash, a golemblood pot, heroism and recklessness for maximum facemelting.

Its actually a surprisingly valid question iddqd. I was about ready to point out that on use trinkets generally get stacked with DW and such. However depending on the circumstances the effect might be a lot lower. Its still situational, but definitely worth spending some time on: (Im trying to take TG in consideration. but as currently an SMF user i might be slightly biased)

a) for now lets just assume hit = crit. its not entirely true for all weapon setups , but at least for SMF its absolutely true as you need extra hit, and for any TG setup other then dual Ashkandis as well .

b) We have our on use STR for 321 avg, or 380 passive. We have 2 possible way of using trinket:

- alligning with DW/recklessness, which means every trinket proc is affected by DW, and every 2nd one by recklessness (60% of the duration). This also means that first of all we use the trinket every 2.4 min not every 2. Which already drops the avg value to 267. Now given how Deathwish is at best around 15% dmg increase over enrage, and 32% over non enraged stat (using realistic stats), I would assume its around 20% boost to the value of proc. That puts it at 320 or so STR. Now 30% of it will be affected by recklessness, which is hard to really count, but probably around 50% damage increase. so another 15% making it ~370 STR effect. Heroism will put it even further - surpassing the passive trinket.

- not alligning meaning probably 1st one will go during recklessness, heroism and DW, adding around 15% over 8 min fight in the end it makes that srt of use probably worse at around 370.


As we can see its very close. Now honestly after patch with huge DW, recklessness stacks, threat can actually be a major issue, resulting in holding off cds etc. In such case a more "calm and steady" trinket can probably pull ahead. Ease of use is a nice thing too - remember FoA pulls ahead with flawless use - something irrelevant to the LtS.

I already do have problems with threat, using no cooldowns. Don't know why they made our attacks bigger instead of giving us something else without burst aggro.

If you have 5 stacks of Raw Fury from the Angerforge trinket you can macro it all together with the engineer tinker and it will all stack. The only time Angerforge gets a 12 second delay is if you use the engineer tinker before you have 5 stacks of Raw Fury.