Lambach

Id probably stick with dragon strike actually. Stick some cutioner on it, and its probably higher over all dps then a rising tide, which imo is a pretty shitty dps weapon. Ton of wasted stats on stam.

 

Neurot

I’m glad I found this thread, I am at a crossroads here. Being a warrior with over 200 days played from the beginning of wow & no alts. I don’t think I have ever been so frustrated.
This week I changed spec twice. I started as a tank until I got into BWL & started going deeper in the fury tree for piercing howl. Gaining more capable tanks in the guild & just plain getting sick of tanking & being asked to tank every god forsaken instance got old. I Tried MS and was completely bored with it. Went to fury. Great love it. Developed a nice balance in PvE & PvP. Destroying people in both. And it’s pretty much been that way for over a year & a half. But patch after patch after patch etc, have really changed warrior dps and rolls. Being a horrible typist I managed to get around the conditional macros. My reaction times got a bit worse but nothing to make much of a difference. I noticed more a difference with the haste nerf & change to flurry. Annoying but nothing that bugged me much. Still able to crank out some top dps numbers.
At the time my spec was nearly ideal for both pvp & pve. With arms talents up to sweeping strikes, with axe spec. and fury up to blood thirst. Off the top of my head pushing averages of 33%+ crit , hit 12%+ and 1600+ AP with no buffs or stance factors. Veterans’ gear , T4, everything from Gruul & mulgar, some SSC, and gladiator. Using the ugly as sin Gladiator Axe & Malchazeen both with mongoose as DW & Gorehowl w/ savagery. All gemmed & enchanted. A nice balance between raiding & pvp, 2h or 2w.
Come patch 2.3 . I find myself at a loss with dps. With the change to the trees, PvP has considerably been more challenging. With the loss to imp intercept and a buncha noobs farming honor for gladiator. The resilience & added health has become a factor it seems, and the lack of a descent cool down to chase down people in a rush.
Also my raid dps gets nerfed from threat. Also very raid unfriendly spec with using cleaves & the new whirlwind & making everything around me bleed & breaking CC’s and often getting myself killed. Though I'm not that careless it still happens from time to time. Much of my dps is lost when I'm forced to single target focus unless I have the luxury of a windfury. I could alter the arms & loss the bleed & bonus to crit, but for what. I need the points to get up to the higher brackets of arms, and the other talents are rather pointless.
So I decided to give the full fury a solid go. Losing 5% crit from weapon masteries but gaining a bunch of AP with the berserker stance talent & commanding presence & if I remember to keep my buffs up my raid dps has increase a fair amount. I find myself failing to be viable in 5 heroics mans any more and the arena has been a complete disaster. Mobs in 5 mans simple aren’t alive long enough for all the goodies of fury to take action. And resilience hurting the rampage buff, weapon expertise hurting the use of overpower, loss of deathwish & being fear bombed, and stance dancing constantly changing my AP, Arena has suffered the most.
Seems as if blizzards intent was to separate the arm/fury trees to be either PvP or PvE. Not that I like it but I guess it makes sense. So being all pissed off, I Spec Mortal strike. Arena got slightly better, a noticeable difference as for being able to PvP better with the some talents back and being a rather rusty with an MS build I’m sure it will get better. I haven’t raided with it yet, I’m sure I’m going to be bored, with my guild’s slump in raiding 25 mans. I’m rather bored as it is & I’m not sure I want that to happen.

With the new token reward geared toward the full fury spec and some nice swords & armor with haste & penetration in ZA. I’m leaning toward an Arms/Fury sword spec hybrid. Thinking that will solve much of my frustration but that’s a matter of time since ZA so far hasn’t been too challenging. There I OT pretty effectively in my tank gear, with the hybrid axe spec keeping my crit high enough, I don’t get rage starved and my TPS in full tank gear is much better with the change to Tactical Mastery. There is no problems when I tank the bear form. Even losing the crit with full fury tanking the bear form has yet to pose any problems. So I’m not too worried about my off tanking abilities. I’m sure I will be finding soon enough out how well MS OT’ing will fair.
I’m going to give MS a go for the week, but I have a feeling I will be spec’ing back to arm/fury & probably concentrating in 2H fury with imp slam for some burst dps in pvp by intercept stuns, use HS while charging then slam, bloodthrist, & WW if I got the rage. I also have thought about fighting cheese with cheese & farming honor for resilience & be the typical cookie cutter 2h MS warrior, but that’s not my style. And being in alliance battlegrounds is totally pathetic now, the honor grind is laughable. Pulling less then 200 honor in WSG on a holiday weekend and losing way more AVs then winning. Soooo depressing.
I considered the option of going mace spec hybrid for the pvp , but my MTs’ suggest otherwise, the last thing I need is to nerf their rage & threat when I raid. I’m sure if I play enough Arena & even losing enough I’d be able to scoop up most of the season 2 or 3 stuff. But like much of warrior gear , the stuff is so poorly itemized to fit a descent DW fury spec. besides the gain in resilience the stats aren’t that much different unless I grind it & deck out in season 3 and stick with 2h and using the token reward gear for DW in raids. With averaging 30 tokens a week with a 2 hour kara zerg and some heroics, even then it’s a few months worth of grinding

So you see at this moment I’m at a loss on what to do & where to fit in. it seems my toon has changed in every aspect of the game over night. Up until the recent changes it wasn’t that way at all. Being an old skool player I’m frustrated way more then I should be over some game like never before.

Any advice before I roll a Lock? sorry for being long winded
N

 

xtreat

I almost don't want to go after this last guy, I am afraid maybe I'll wind up in the dungheap with him.

I am bit confused about at what point i should lessen my priority on AP and start using 4str-4crit gems instead of all 8str. Currently I am at 2100AP and 33% crit. I am in BT so i have access to epic gems as well.

 

Lambach

Not sure what exaclty your asking for man, its a lot of confusion and probably a lot of unnecessary info. Lemme see if i can help at all.

Arena is harder atm, long Q's and everyone in resil gear make it harder. Fury was never really viable in arenas. MS has always been king.
You wanna be maces for pvp, but its shit for pve. You can prolly deal with axes or swords for pve.

Swords is best for pve, get a sword if you can.

Your dps will be much less with blood frenzy, but tank threat will be up and so will others dps. Which will offset your lack of dps.

Fury still does a ton of dmg and is very viable. There wasnt really a nerf to it at all.

 

Lambach

Xtreat, I think you're saying thats your buffed AP. Your gonna start stacking armor pen on gear and losing a lot of crit for it. Start stacking crit in your gem sockets.

 

volcarr

I have 3 level 70 characters. a rogue, priest, and my 70 warrior. I of course play my warrior the most for it is the best class in WoW.

I have played since release and all that jazz... as a 70 fury warrior you wont have the luxury of doing awesome in pvp since you are a pve spec. I like the hybrid axe spec i have tried it and it works pretty nicely but with the implementation of the new WW and the new 41 point talent you should try a fury/arms spec going down further into fury. I know you said you did but that is where fury will make you happy trust me. right now on my fury warrior not greatly geared i have about 1800 AP in zerker stance about 30% to crit and somewhere around 180 hit rating which isnt amazing. But your going to have to get over the intercept in the arms tree now and no more death wish boo hoo sweeping strikes is very nice at times anyways. The 10% aggro reduction means i wont pull from autoattacking anymore and rampage + imp berserker stance and commanding presence puts me well over 2.2k AP in raids self buffed. As a fury warrior dont expect to be that viable for pvp im sorry just dont unless you have full merc and/or some s3 gear. Also you dont leave zerker stance as a fury warrior there is no reason to ever be in battle stance.. that imp overpower is garbage for us if thats what your after unless your about to die and wanna throw a sword and board on slap in def stance.

Some earlier math done on Cleave and actually supporting imp cleave for raiding is a noob idea not to attack anyone but end game dont actually expect to be cleaving/sweeping strikes/WW targets like mad you will just pull something/ break a sheep and die as you deserve.

Heroic strike is usefull for when BT and WW are both on cooldown and you have lots of extra rage if you have low rage generation for some reason HS will only hurt you for when BT comes back up you wont beable to use it.

Also math done on hit rating could be right not 100% positive about the roll table you used on page 51 or something i think that could be wrong since you threw crit into the equation of chances i think that is not included it is inlcuded in a later table after it has been conlcuded whether you will be dodged/parried/or actually hit the target.

For the new WW im not sure if anyone as stated a macro like this or what.. maybe alot of people are switching to slow MH weapons because of it? which is not necessary just macro it up somethine like this of course using w/e weapons you do have.

/equipslot 17 Decapitator
/cast Whirlwind
/equipslot 17 Merciless Gladiator's Quickblade

that replaces your offhand momentarily with a slower weapon and casts WW then replaces it again with your faster off hand.. i havent gotten to test it in raids yet really i havent found a slower offhand worth using yet i did test it out on a normal mob think you will have to press the macro twice but yea thats my 2 cents.

 

Zadus

My guild is about to start moving into hyjal and BT. Im not sure what i should upgrade my offhand to either it be a rising tide, syphon or a swiftsteel blungeon. Any thoughts? Here is my armory - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...=Eredar&n=Zado

 

hawkk

I prefer the Swiftsteel Bludgeon to the other selections you mentioned. Both Rising Tide and Syphon have terrible DPS stats. You will lose a bit of damage on your whirlwinds if you go with the Bludgeon, but overall it will provide smoother rage generation because of its speed, and hopefully that along with its nice stats should equate to more DPS.

 

• Mjollnir

1.5s on equip
1.5s on WW
1.5s on equip
=
4.5 for 1 move when you're not even autoattacking? With 10s being the generic WW c/d I wouldn't view this as a way to boost dps.
With the exception to execute range swaps, find a MH/OH combo you are comfortable with, and smash face with it. Avoid swaps where not necessary.

 

Neurot

yeah i think i'm just going to have to accept that blizzard is forcing a play style on us.. PvP or PvE
and start farming gear appropriate for what i like to do. Both..

I think I'll go the route of sword spec fury.. with the changes to human racial skills
I figure using all my heroic tokens on the fury set made from left over wicker funiture
and slowly work at getting season 2 & 3 stuff for better pvp play and use a 2h

another question is.. if i stick with PvE & casually do PvP is the sword/spec fury especially with the swords found in ZA better or worse then the strong attack power build of a full fury spec .

after 3 years of playing a well rounded versatile warrior i been feeling backed into a corner to choose
a direction.

 

Lambach

You have been backed into that corner for a year now. The recent changes really didnt do anything. Hybrid sword spec is really nice, our fury warrior ran with it fro a long while. After 2.3 though you really are missing too much in the f ury tree. Raid buffed your missing around 600 AP, plus probably some -miss and + hit talents. Swords are good, but itll probably be more dps for you to go with a more classic 17/44/0 build. You cant really pick up MS without blowing your Fury tree totally, so sword spec wont help you any more in pvp then 17/44/0.

If you really wanna salvage it you should go Blood frenzy, make your raid happy and still be able to pvp.

Also, the heroic badge fury gear is pretty awful. Lots of wasted item budget on plus hit. It might be ok depending on your gear level I guess. But really you should only grab the pieces with armor pen.

 

Zadus

Okay so like 6 pages or so ago people were showing their wws of fights like teron kaz and something else i dont remember. People were comparing arms vs fury raid dps. Now obviously we all know arms offers more raid contribution as sad as that is. But what about fights that arent so stand there and slam friendly? Like vashj or fights where things cant bleed? Supremus would be a pain i would think for an arms warrior trying to slam.

I would just really like to hear from some arms warriors on how they do on fights where movement is part of the fight.

Im really conflicted on what spec to do. On one hand i look at fury and its more fun for me plus i believe it will offer more consistant dps on all the fights where arms wont. Then i look at arms and its pretty hard to ignore arms brings more to the raid than fury. But do i want to play it at the expense of my fun? No not really, but my guild leader just seems more excited about BF than a fury warrior.

Id like to hear everyones thoughts especially arms warriors.

 

Natural

Although you have concern, there aren't many bosses that require constant moving. Even on Vashj it is reasonable to stand still for the 0.5 seconds for a slam to go off. On supremeus, you shouldn't melee in phase 2 anyway =). I wouldn't keep this as a concern.

Here are some of the things I have considered that may or may not help your decision.

- 2H PVE gear works better in PVP than DW PVE gear. If you plan to PVP casually, building a 2H PVE set will get you more than a DW set. This also applies to talent respec's--if you are cheap and don't want to respec between PVE/PVP, 2H is the way to go.

- 2H requires more attention and timing to maximize DPS, while DW fury is mostly cooldown spamming. If you have a high/variable ping, terrible timing, or distractions in your gaming area you will probably do better as Fury. As a raid leader I stick to DW fury.

- Are there other warriors that you compete with for raid spots? If so, 2H will give you an advantage in progression encounters.

I hope some of this helps.

 

Uglesh

As everyone is indicating, you really do have to choose PvE or PvP if you want only one gear set. That said, money is easy to come by and my guild has several people who spec for raids half the week and PvP the other half. Yes it's 100+ gold a week, but that's less then 2 days of Skettis & Ogrilla dailies.

As a raid leader I tend to look at DW fury warriors as a rogue who can't vanish. To me, a DW Fury build just doesn't bring anything "extra" to the dance. In the world of synergy, and Arms warrior with Blood Frenzy is just too important. We have had raids with 10+ people doing physical damage. That alone can make the difference between downing a boss or hitting an enrage timer with 3-5% left.

I just tend to think of Fury warriors as filler when we don't have more effective classes.

 

Dimpster

I'm not sure how a DW fury warrior is a rogue who can't vanish? On many occasions I tank trash, and I provide a very nice 400 AP bonus to the melee group, not to mention my steady and consistent DPS which isn't far off of our rogues. Fury warrior's are not fillers, and it's sad to think your are a raid leader.

 

Zadus

I think he meant compared to an arms warrior. Where an arms warrior can off tank things and provide the same ap buff you can while also providing 4 percent physical damage on a target.

I'm geared for either spec having a dragonstrike and merc offhand for fury and having a lionheart executioner for ms pve until i get an upgrade to that.

Im leaning more towards ms pve because when it all comes down to it, you cant ignore what BF brings. Imo they should switch imp slam with Blood Frenzy.

 

Zadus

Ok ive seen this trinket talked about with fury warriors but what about pve arms warriors? Solarian's sapphire? Does it really add enough to the groups dps to drop one of my current trinkets because my guild laughs at it and shards it everytime it drops i just decided to take it for free this time. And how much will it hurt my dps being arms? I currently use beserker's Call and hourglass. I would be replacing the hourglass.

 

Touf

350 attack power...what the hell could beat it?

 

Randor

Solarian is much like taking Blood Frenzy or going Arms. You might not have as much single-target DPS as a Fury warrior but the extra attack power (or commanding shout) benefits every member in your party.

Just set a Itemrack setting to swop it out when not in a raid.

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.

 

nolena

The dps you need to kill any boss is a group effort and by not wearing the trinket you are lowering the group's dps in favour to personal dps. In my eyes a dps warrior has only 1 trinket slot available, as you will be wearing the sapphire always if you are in a melee/physical dps group.
The trinket provides atleast 350AP in a good group, its quite sad if your guild does not see this.

 

Fjoryn

I don't know if you remember me Hraith but i raided with you pre-bc before creating this Fjoryn and i can attest that i would not have expected you to be having trouble dpsing on something like morogrim. My gear is worse than yours, feel free to check my armory... (can't fetch you the link atm it apears to be down or loading really slow), i have done just over 1200dps on morogrim for the last 2 weeks. Knowing your skill, I would imagine you must not be recieving good supporting buffs from the raid? I have 5x sunder, FF , hunter expose, unleashed rage, WF/Str totems, and BL/reck to reach those numbers. Also buffs on my self of 20str food, 120ap flask, kings, improved might, motw. Are you getting any of those extra boosts to your damage?

 

Brissa

I feel sorry for your guild
By providing a massive 435AP for your group (if you have an enh shaman) it is probably the best trinket in the game, any category.

 

Golias

I was fury for the biggest part of SSC and was really surprised when I changed to MS. Most people tend to say fury is "more fun", but personally I found out that I enjoyed the higher complexity of the slam rotation. Fury seems a bit more "natural" when dpsing, but once you get proper gear, MS becomes easier and it's satisfying to see the big numbers 2 handers provides.

There is some difficulty in fights where you have to move a lot, but it isn't anything dramatic. Loot wise it's very nice you can get all the weapons (and many plate items) that would otherwise go to waste or to off-specc.

The big downside to MS is that it is more support dependant than fury. Without a shaman your dps will be poor. And when you dps starts to fly you realize you are limited unless you shaman is enhancement and you don't get a feral on a regular basis on your group. So, look at your raid classes before deciding, as they will be important determining your success.

This said I think it's pretty viable to bring a fury warrior to a raid, especially if they are prepared to tank when the chance arises, and if you have a caster heavy team.

 

Zadus

I really got my answer last nite if pve ms would suffer horribly on a very non stationary fight. We fought vashj and i ended up coming out on top over everyone. I know this obviously isnt the best in the world boss to test dps becuase everyone is moving around doing a job. But for the most part all the melee are doing the exact same thing i am and im more penalized seeign as a moving target is more difficult for me.

All in all im pretty pleased with the results and was shocked when i looked at the meters after she was down.

 

Hraithmar

Hey Fjoryn, yea I remember you. I'm getting all the normal raid stuff, FF, Sunder, Blessing, the usual raid enhancements. I just don't know what it is. I should have some WWS logs pretty soon.