Natural

I will agree that it is not as important to maximize DPS when you are farming Illidan. There have certainly been a lot of water elementals flying around these past couple weeks...

The difficulty lies in justifying your rights to pick up these other DPS trinkets. Is it logical for me to pick up [Madness of the Betrayer] over a rogue or hunter who would always use it? It really depends on how much progression you think there is left in the game.

 

Bevz

I would say it still comes down to the time your guild is progressing. During these times most guilds incorporate a number of rules to help with new fights, such as not disenchanting items if they are upgrades, regardless of weather that person would prefer something else.

Once progression is over, loot should be free choice. At the end of the day its a game and contrary to what some people might say, people play this game to better their character and have fun doing it.

 

Moogul

My guild has 3 dps warriors, plus a ret paladin, so in the majority of our raids there are 2 plate-dpsers, but yes, it's still a lot easier to pick up the offset pieces.

The way I look at it, I'll work out my 'perfect set' of gear, and then work towards that based on the old mantra of what drops first.

 

Tejs

Hey there EJ, I'm looking for a little advice about my warrior, Trollblade. This character is an alt, but an alt I sometimes use on lower raids such as Gruul and Kara (which the WWS is for).

Obligatory WWS Parse: Wow Web Stats

There's a couple places I can instantly improve a little damage via spec (say dropping Improved Execute for Weapon Mastery and finally getting Mongoose for my Main Hand), but byeond that I'm at a loss on why my DPS is so low. I was only doing about 600 DPS on Gruul even though I had Windfury Totem.

Stats (battle stance):
1622 Attack Power (remember that I have Darkmoon Card though)
28.58% Crit
199 Hit Rating

Armory Link: The World of Warcraft Armory

What am I doing wrong DPS-wise?

As I understand it, the key to DPS is to use these powers in this order:

1) If the target is below 20% HP, use Execute.
2) If Bloodthirst is up, use it.
3) If bloodthirst is not up, use WW.
4) If BT and WW are not up, and you have more than 50 Rage, use Heroic Strike.

That's been my goal when DPS'ing, and I've been able to get above 3500 Attack Power with my gear and with Windfury is pretty fantastic, but I can't believe that I am doing such low DPS. Pointers?

 

Dynalisia

Your DPS time seems low compared to how long that fight took, even for Gruul. Don't die.

Also, you have used 6 Wicked Noble Topaz's in your gear, while it would be more beneficial for you to use Inscribed Noble Topaz's because of Blessing of Kings (I see you have two paladins in your raid).

 

Tejs

Try 1 I was shatter killed about 60% into the fight.

Try 2 I was aggro killed about 30 seconds into the fight.

[edit] According to my view, it shows 100% and 101% DPS time respectively. Maybe you were referring to something else?

 

Bevz

From my experience if you want to do good dps on Gruul, stay in the cave'ins and yell for some heals. Granted not the most efficient but going from your stats I'd say rage was your problem.

Also dieing doesn't help. Word.

Being less specific, try and grab some decent pve equivalent items for all the arena gear your wearing. A fair amount of stats is lost on stam and resilience. Oh and yes, definately loose the ap gems.

 

Tejs

Indeed, regemming is an issue I found. I actually gemmed my stuff before reading some FAQs here on these boards and have been too lazy to spend the money just for BoK benefits. It *is* on my to-do list though.

I didnt really notice being rage starved though - I was able to Bloodthirst and WW every time they were up as I recall, especially with Windfury and Cave Ins giving me rage.

Filtered WWS Report: Wow Web Stats

BT at +9 Sec, +17, +24, so about on average 9, 8, 7 seconds respectively. Obviously more than 6 seconds between each, but I think GCD was nuking me each time.
WW happened at +11, +21, so about 10 between the first two.

Would WWS report lower DPS from time spent moving back into position from Ground Stomp?

Looks like I'm getting a lot of glancing.

 

Thorquiz

I see no difficulty in justifying a roll on another personal dps-trinket. Other classes are playing with their specs (Hemo in a raid-situation for example), I want to swap my support-trinket for a personal dps-trinket. It kinda depends on your raid and on the other players, but what I've read in the forums is, that many players try something new after they killed Illidan, so why shouldn't we?

 

Dynalisia

You're completely right. For some reason I hadn't realized you have two fights in that report. If you want help like this, it would probably be more helpful if you would post a WWS of a fight with better becnhmarking qualities. Although considering the situation you're in with your warrior being an alt I wouldn't really be able to say which one that would be.

Edit:
Because if you take that Madness over a rogue right now for selfish reasons, that rogue won't be using it on the encounters in Sunwell when you will be using your Sapphire again. Besides, even though changing your loot focus from serving the greater good towards raiding towards serving yourself can technically be considered 'trying something new', I would hardly throw it on the same pile as respeccing and using completely diffirent abilities for a change of pace.

 

Amathal

I wanna start by saying that I'm still leveling my DPS warrior, but I've read a lot of theorycraft and done Gruul many times

I think you were onto something though when you mentioned when you used your bloodthirsts and whirlwinds.

At 4:10:24 you WW, at 4:10:27 you Bloodthirst, looks like there is a ground slam and shatter around 4:10:39, then you get back on top of Gruul at 4:10:41. Then your next Bloodthirst is over 4 seconds later at 4:10:45, then WW at 4:10:47. All there is between the shatter and that Bloodthirst is white damage, seems to me like you should have been able to WW or Bloodthirst earlier than that? It also seems like you could have slid in another WW at 4:10:33 before you ran out for the ground slam?

I know its easier said than done, but I've these are the kinda things I wanna have figured out by the time I hit 70, gotta show my rogue friends who is boss :P

 

Mooregame

Our guild is getting ready to move into MH/BT and I'm at a crossroads.

I'm at the point where I'm not sure which stats I'm lacking and which I have may have too much. I know a lot of the MH/BT gear focuses on armor pen, etc. and I could use some advice on this. Should I be stacking armor pen, haste, crit, and at expense to what? I haven't seen any stats on it yet so if there is a good guide or link it would be helpful.

Here's my armory, and help is greatly appreciated!

The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Randor

You could lose some hit otherwise a solid set of gear. Replacing the Kara ring will be a start. Also, consider executioner on your MH and getting a slow OH.

And imp tc vs iron will since you will, in all likelihood, will be doing off-tanking from time to time.

And if no other warrior has it, Piercing Howl and 2/5 Imp Demo shout as are handy to have and easy for a Fury warrior to keep up.

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.

 

Infernox

My guild currently has 4/5 Hyjal and the first 2-3 bosses of BT down, and i've switched from my resto shaman to my DW fury warrior for raiding. My armory is here. I recently changed my talent spec but haven't had a chance to try it out in raids yet. I also have a [Merciless Gladiator's Left Ripper] with a potency enchant on, but I picked the dagger up from a ZA run to test it out. I'd like to get a slower offhand if possible.

I'm not really sure of what path i should take next in regards to gear choices or what stat to improve on. I know that a lot of gear needs an upgrade. I'd appreciate any input you guys would have.

 

Dynalisia

Since the haste nerf, there is generally just one 'best' off-tier item for each slot in MH/BT and that is the one that simply doesn't have haste on it. Get them whenever they drop for you, because they will all be better than what you have and if you happen to run into any stat-deficiencies (most likely +hit) then simply apply a temporary stopgap by regemming or eating +hit food until you get the key +hit pieces. Depending on your loot system, you can also go for T6 pieces, but as mentioned before, it is preferable to most people to just get the lesser-contented off-tier loot that is almost as good or better until you get the set bonuses of T6 working for you. It will also help out the classes you share a token with and your warrior tanks. For weapons what you have is pretty solid already, maybe a blade of infamy for your OH would be a small upgrade, check the spreadsheet I'd say.

In the mean time, remove those +hit gems from your gear and replace them with +crit or crit/str. And buying a wad of arcane tomes from the AH to get your Aldor rep to exalted for a decent shoulder enchant should help aswell.

Also, is it me or does not a single warrior in your guild have points in improved demo? If you want to make yourself really useful, get 5/5 and make one of your locks start putting CoR on bosses.

 

Infernox

Thanks for the input Dyn.

I think our offtank is going to respec into imp. demo, as we do use recklessness quite a bit. If it doesn't work out I wouldn't mind getting it in place of unbridled wrath I suppose. Regarding losing the hit gems, is there a certain hit rating I should be aiming for? I would assume the 15% with precision is enough.

Thanks again for the help.

(Oh I did get the spreadsheet in the [Warrior] DPS Spreadsheet 2.3 and beyond thread, but OpenOffice decided to throw a fit and refuse to open it. I'll take another look later if I can)

 

Dynalisia

I believe Allcom and the other people involved have been looking to make it compatible with OpenOffice for a while now. IF it doesn't work, try reading the Spreadsheet's thread and see if there's anything you can enable or disable to make it work or that you simply need to install Excel.

As for hit: 15% hitrating is probably way too much. If you want to get to the core of the theorycraft you would have to read a few dozen pages back in this thread, but it has to do with the fact that after you reach 9% total +hit, any more of it would only affect your white hits and not your special attacks anymore. Meaning that it loses close to half of its benefit to you. Extra hitrating also benefits the predictability of your rage generation and any proc effects, but it doesn't weigh up to the damage +crit adds to all melee attacks made.

The current trend is that you just make sure you have your olde 9% +hit so you don't miss any specials (including precision) and once you do stop gemming any +hit at all. As soon as you can afford it due to receiving extra itemized +hit, replace any +hit gems you did have to get to 9% with crit or str/crit ones. If you happen to get +hit because it's itemized into a superior item, that's fine though.

Right now I actually find myself wondering if there would ever be a situation where you would consider speccing out of precision. I know mages do it with their hitrating talent.

 

Lambach

I've definatly specced out of precision. Random pieces give enough +hit to make cap. And there are too many new goodies to in the fury tree to pass up. If you find that you have over 9% hit, i definatly suggest dropping some of the points in precision.

 

Dynalisia

What did you opt for? Extra 2/2 execute or 2/2 Weapon mastery (depending which you had two in to begin with), Imp WW 1/2 and piercing howl? Or something like Imp Berserker instead of that last one? Is either one of those worth losing 1% to hit though?

 

Lambach

Exactly. Well you can still take a point or 2 in precision if you feel its not worth it. But weapon mastery definatly is. I really enjoy imp execute, and I prefer imp ww to fix my rotation over teh 1% hit. Id say you could probably drop 1-2 of the points in imp ww for more in precision.

 

Bevz

Precision is still worth having even at decent hit rating levels but agreed it is something I'd drop first did I want to try something else.

Don't forget though, with the defiance talent change i'll probably be going for something like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft just to see how it performs over impale. The build just allows enough points to get all the worthwhile talents in both trees.

 

Lambach

How did i double post 6 hours later? sorry please delete

 

Gruntle

Using the spreadsheet shows that 3/3 in precision is worth more total dps than 2/2 Imp Execute+1/3 Precision and 1/2 Imp exec.+2/3 Precision. Speccing out of Imp WW totally is a bad idea, it will ruin your cycle. Precision is an excellent talent even after reaching 9% hit. Sure, it's not as good as Weapon Mastery but imo (and in the spreadsheet) it beats Imp. Execute by a fair margin. 9% is not the hit cap, 28% is, it's not until you reach 28% that hit is pointless. (Yeah I know that crit/str/whatever is better on gear, but now we're discussing talents).

I already changed to a 47/14 fury/prot build actually. Feels nice to be able to take all those talents in fury tree. Even though the defiance change is not in yet I still managed to keep my dps at roughly the same level as before. It's of course hard to tell just comparing 2 different raids, but I didn't feel gimped at all. Estimates from the spreadsheet shows a loss of 3-5% going from 17/44/0 to 0/47/14, seems reasonable to me. The great thing about the build is the added survivability. Having Last Stand and +10% armor enabled me to tank Nalorakk for the last 3% yesterday in fury gear+shield, it saved a certain wipe for us. Must say that I really like the build. Will be even more fun when Defiance starts to work in zerk stance.

To Infernox, make a post in the spreadsheet thread about your OpenOffice problems, I could probably help you make it work (or I could upload my OO version of it). The reason why it dies when you try to start it is likely the scripts, they need to be disabled if you want it to work.

 

phatasma

I have interest on the talent build above with of better off-tanking.
I have perform some simulation on the talent build you have posted.
I found 9% dps lost when you switch from a standard 17/44 build.

This will be still a very good DPS/off-tanking build.

In the simulation program, Imp. WW is set as 1 talent point.

 

Gruntle

Looks like a really nice simulation program, any chance that you could share it?