Originally Posted by phatasma I found 9% dps lost when you switch from a standard 17/44 build.

Originally Posted by Mjollnir You're right, he would have the advantage of DWounds ticking during slams and shatters. Personally, I bandage after every shatter without exception. It's a good habit I've never slacked with even when healers have things under control.

Originally Posted by Mjollnir Your simulator is flawed, or I've been subject to a higher string of hits/crits. I did 3 Gruul runs recently with a 17/44 warrior- both of us had an enh sham and feral druid in our groups. He also had an BM hunter. His gear setup runs with more hit and ap, but 3% less crit than I. Our numbers were very similar in all 3 attempts- within 1% of each other. Warrior's name is Masita. Next time I'll parse it, but a rough 10% loss between 17/44 and my current 3/44/14 isn't close to being right.

Originally Posted by Mjollnir Your simulator is flawed, or I've been subject to a higher string of hits/crits. I did 3 Gruul runs recently with a 17/44 warrior- both of us had an enh sham and feral druid in our groups. He also had an BM hunter. His gear setup runs with more hit and ap, but 3% less crit than I. Our numbers were very similar in all 3 attempts- within 1% of each other. Warrior's name is Masita. Next time I'll parse it, but a rough 10% loss between 17/44 and my current 3/44/14 isn't close to being right.

I have been making heavy use of the Warrior DPS spreadsheets as my Warrior transitions from 17/44 DW to 21/40 or 20/41 2h fury-imp slam. I have a few questions, but I think it might be better to outline the assumptions I am working under first.

1) We have illidan on farm status, so personal e-peen growth is more legitimate at this point than it ever would have been previously (Re: Solarian's Sapphire - Items - World of Warcraft versus Madness of the Betrayer - Items - World of Warcraft)

2) We run melee-light raids, generally our build is 2 to 3 rogues, myself, a feral druid, and an enh shaman.

The prevalent spec for Warriors in T6 with Cataclysm's Edge - Items - World of Warcraft seems to be 33/28 MS / Flurry w/blood frenzy. The overall raid damage boost from BF is undeniable, and in terms of absolute maximum raid dps I have a feeling that for the only dps warrior in the raid, BF and Solarian trinket is probably the way to go. However, If I am talking about pure personal dps in T6 instances, there are a few questions I have unresolved:

1) Belt of One-Hundred Deaths - Items - World of Warcraft versus Red Belt of Battle - Items - World of Warcraft

If I understand the mechanics of expertise correctly, the 6 expertise I gain from the Vashj belt vastly outweighs the hit on RBoB, the crit is similar, and AP is inferior, but not to the point where I see it as a huge problem. So... is this belt a viable high end warrior option? If so, im going to dig it out of my bank and gem it up. (If this can be resolved using the spreadsheet, my apologies. I am pretty bad with excel and couldn't answer this question myself)

2) Deathwish Versus Rampage for 2H fury.

Reading through the Warrior posts I have seen some varying opinions on this one. My feeling is that since Rampage must be reapplied on a regular basis and really screws up the rotation ( At least for me, wearing the 38 haste garbage trash gloves, trash haste ring, and a dst ) and deathwish is only a marginal theoretical dps decrease, I might stick with deathwish. If there is any real theorycraft to refute this that I havn't managed to find here, a link would be much appreciated.

3) Armor penetration, effective scaling, and the use or lack thereof of DPS Warrior T6

At high end there are some difficult decisions to make with warrior itemization. It is fairly simple to plug these items into the spreadsheet and see what yields the highest dps, but the spreadsheets seem to ignore the scaling value of armor penetration. I read somewhere that the spreadsheet will model it correctly given a few resets, but I cannot seem to get it to work. Warrior T6 seems like a slightly lackluster dps set relative to the value of 4/5 T6 to the pure dps classes, and DPS warriors also have quite a large range of off-set items with high Ilvl and decent stat allocation... so:

-Do I wear 4/5 tier 6 at all, or use a combination of the offset DPS plate pieces.
-If yes to 4piece T6, which piece do I sacrifice for the one (often superior) offset piece that I can wear?
-Assuming static armor penetration of 685 from my other gear, w/ potential procs from Madness of the betrayer and executioner, does Legguards of Endless Rage - Items - World of Warcraft get outweighed by the scaling value of armor penetration on Leggings of Divine Retribution - Items - World of Warcraft or do I simply wear T6 legs and use a different slot for my offset piece.

4) How much hit is the right amount (ie: the cap, for 2h, with 3 of 3 precision )

The value I see across the board and on the accepted notions of theorycrafting post is 143 for 1h shield and 2h, but I have not found a post that lists the cap if you are specced into precision with a 2hander. I am not sure if I am just reading this wrong, or whether everyone just specs arms and doesnt care, or whether there is some basic math here that I do not understand. Anyways, there it is.

I am a little tired at the moment and if I have dragged on or repeated myself or asked questions that have easily accessible answers that I was simply too lazy to find, I apologize. Similarly, I know questions about item choices are sometimes frowned on. My justification here is simply that the theory behind these item comparisons is interesting for some warriors that can extend the principles behind these item comparisons to their own gear and spec. 20/41 and 21/40 are fairly rare specs from what I have researched, so information is a little sparse. Also, I couldnt figure out how to tag items to show wowhead stats on mouseover, so please excuse the links =/.

Originally Posted by Color 2h fury question stuff

[item]Item's name[/item]

Originally Posted by Color I have been making heavy use of the Warrior DPS spreadsheets as my Warrior transitions from 17/44 DW to 21/40 or 20/41 2h fury-imp slam. I have a few questions, but I think it might be better to outline the assumptions I am working under first. 1) We have illidan on farm status, so personal e-peen growth is more legitimate at this point than it ever would have been previously (Re: Solarian's Sapphire - Items - World of Warcraft versus Madness of the Betrayer - Items - World of Warcraft) 2) We run melee-light raids, generally our build is 2 to 3 rogues, myself, a feral druid, and an enh shaman. The prevalent spec for Warriors in T6 with Cataclysm's Edge - Items - World of Warcraft seems to be 33/28 MS / Flurry w/blood frenzy. The overall raid damage boost from BF is undeniable, and in terms of absolute maximum raid dps I have a feeling that for the only dps warrior in the raid, BF and Solarian trinket is probably the way to go. However, If I am talking about pure personal dps in T6 instances, there are a few questions I have unresolved: 1) Belt of One-Hundred Deaths - Items - World of Warcraft versus Red Belt of Battle - Items - World of Warcraft If I understand the mechanics of expertise correctly, the 6 expertise I gain from the Vashj belt vastly outweighs the hit on RBoB, the crit is similar, and AP is inferior, but not to the point where I see it as a huge problem. So... is this belt a viable high end warrior option? If so, im going to dig it out of my bank and gem it up. (If this can be resolved using the spreadsheet, my apologies. I am pretty bad with excel and couldn't answer this question myself) 2) Deathwish Versus Rampage for 2H fury. Reading through the Warrior posts I have seen some varying opinions on this one. My feeling is that since Rampage must be reapplied on a regular basis and really screws up the rotation ( At least for me, wearing the 38 haste garbage trash gloves, trash haste ring, and a dst ) and deathwish is only a marginal theoretical dps decrease, I might stick with deathwish. If there is any real theorycraft to refute this that I havn't managed to find here, a link would be much appreciated. 3) Armor penetration, effective scaling, and the use or lack thereof of DPS Warrior T6 At high end there are some difficult decisions to make with warrior itemization. It is fairly simple to plug these items into the spreadsheet and see what yields the highest dps, but the spreadsheets seem to ignore the scaling value of armor penetration. I read somewhere that the spreadsheet will model it correctly given a few resets, but I cannot seem to get it to work. Warrior T6 seems like a slightly lackluster dps set relative to the value of 4/5 T6 to the pure dps classes, and DPS warriors also have quite a large range of off-set items with high Ilvl and decent stat allocation... so: -Do I wear 4/5 tier 6 at all, or use a combination of the offset DPS plate pieces. -If yes to 4piece T6, which piece do I sacrifice for the one (often superior) offset piece that I can wear? -Assuming static armor penetration of 685 from my other gear, w/ potential procs from Madness of the betrayer and executioner, does Legguards of Endless Rage - Items - World of Warcraft get outweighed by the scaling value of armor penetration on Leggings of Divine Retribution - Items - World of Warcraft or do I simply wear T6 legs and use a different slot for my offset piece. 4) How much hit is the right amount (ie: the cap, for 2h, with 3 of 3 precision ) The value I see across the board and on the accepted notions of theorycrafting post is 143 for 1h shield and 2h, but I have not found a post that lists the cap if you are specced into precision with a 2hander. I am not sure if I am just reading this wrong, or whether everyone just specs arms and doesnt care, or whether there is some basic math here that I do not understand. Anyways, there it is. I am a little tired at the moment and if I have dragged on or repeated myself or asked questions that have easily accessible answers that I was simply too lazy to find, I apologize. Similarly, I know questions about item choices are sometimes frowned on. My justification here is simply that the theory behind these item comparisons is interesting for some warriors that can extend the principles behind these item comparisons to their own gear and spec. 20/41 and 21/40 are fairly rare specs from what I have researched, so information is a little sparse. Also, I couldnt figure out how to tag items to show wowhead stats on mouseover, so please excuse the links =/. Thanks for reading -Color

Originally Posted by ch3xmix 1. [80 Rage] Auto Attack--> Slam--> Mortal Strike-->? Swing Timer:_______________0_______1.5_______3.0 So I start off with 80 rage before the auto attack, and then I go through the DPS cycle once. At this point in time, I feel I have two options: Wait for an auto attack and slam, or Whirlwind and skip slam. I'm tempted to whirlwind because it doesn't reset my swing timer and I'm eager to put it on cooldown so I can use it again sooner. Should I wait for the auto attack or Whirlwind? Also, if I do whirlwind, should I still slam (swing timer should be at 1.5s since the last auto attack hit).

2. Auto Attack--> Slam-->? [30 rage] In this scenario, I'm left with 30 rage 2/3 of the way into the cycle. I can either use mortal strike now and start a new cycle with 0 rage, or skip using an instant for this cycle and use it on the next cycle. I've found out that I seem to be able to slam sooner after an auto attack if I already I have >15 rage before the auto attack hits, rather than spamming slam while waiting for the rage from the auto attack.

3. Do you guys chain slam or use heroic strike when your rage is, or nearly is, full?

Originally Posted by ch3xmix Hey, I just wanted to ask the DPS Warrior community a few questions regarding 2H MS (3/5 flurry) DPS. 1. [80 Rage] Auto Attack--> Slam--> Mortal Strike-->? Swing Timer:_______________0_______1.5_______3.0 So I start off with 80 rage before the auto attack, and then I go through the DPS cycle once. At this point in time, I feel I have two options: Wait for an auto attack and slam, or Whirlwind and skip slam. I'm tempted to whirlwind because it doesn't reset my swing timer and I'm eager to put it on cooldown so I can use it again sooner. Should I wait for the auto attack or Whirlwind? Also, if I do whirlwind, should I still slam (swing timer should be at 1.5s since the last auto attack hit).

Originally Posted by ch3xmix 2. Auto Attack--> Slam-->? [30 rage] In this scenario, I'm left with 30 rage 2/3 of the way into the cycle. I can either use mortal strike now and start a new cycle with 0 rage, or skip using an instant for this cycle and use it on the next cycle. I've found out that I seem to be able to slam sooner after an auto attack if I already I have >15 rage before the auto attack hits, rather than spamming slam while waiting for the rage from the auto attack.

Originally Posted by ch3xmix 3. Do you guys chain slam or use heroic strike when your rage is, or nearly is, full?

Originally Posted by Fezzick It seems like I'm pulled into combat by our MT, so that kills my charge. I don't have the rage to use Intercept, so i resort to hacking on the target with White attacks. Meanwhile, the Hunters and Rogues are going crazy on the DPS. I glance at Damage Meter and I have just a little more DPS than the tank does. Crap. I can always hit Bloodrage, which gives me an extra 10, which is enough to get my white hit started, but that seems like it.

Originally Posted by Dynalisia Why would you engage a raidboss by intercepting it, am I missing something essential here?

The faster you get to the boss, the faster you begin dps. 1 MH hit is going to more than cover the 10rage it took to arrive via Intercept. I could walk up to the boss, but that might take 3-5sec longer. In the meantime, white hits could be taking place.

Originally Posted by Zalein Also, in any boss fights where you have to move around a lot, I do intervene -> intercept combos to get to the boss faster. One second of DPS more (even if it's white hits only because you have no rage) is far more DPS than saving up your rage.

Originally Posted by Dynalisia Wouldn't you say that starting the fight at a distance from the boss is more exception than the rule though? Most of the time a boss is MD'd to your tank, allowing you to position yourself right next to where it's going to be standing when the fighting begins. Good point, Mother after getting FA'd is a good example I can think of where this is useful.

Originally Posted by Zalein Also, in any boss fights where you have to move around a lot, I do intervene -> intercept combos to get to the boss faster. One second of DPS more (even if it's white hits only because you have no rage) is far more DPS than saving up your rage.