That is a very impressive dps. How many heroisms did you get? I can't tell from wws anymore, because shard of contempts proc has the same name. Also what kinda party were you in? I've never seen warrior so high on brutallus and that include warglaive ones..

Hello

To SSLanfear:

I had 2 heroisms for the first time in my life and it was great , at Gorefiend i only had 1 though. Btw i actually have made more on Gorefiend. WWS

My party was:
Brut: retri-pala, rogue, enh shaman, and BM hunter.
Teron: feral, rogue, BM hunter, enh shaman

To milanista11:

Without checking your gear, my guess is ArP.

To Gruntle:

I think i use pretty standard rotation. BT and WW everytime its up. keeping shouts(battle + demo), rampage up inbtween, and rest is heroic-spam. its all about when to take a break really. I think its nice to have used the same weapon combo for so long, so i get to know the rhythm in em, eventhough i wish for new weapons ofc (read Glaives), but our rogue is first in line, and we havent had one single drop yet. Talk about luck I must say though that im rather sloppy with my rotation. I dont keep it 100%. So i guess i sometimes prioritize a heroic for a WW, and i also refresh rampage must sooner than i should, that includes shouts too.

Perky

Out of curiosity, you don't spamstring at all?
(Also, avoid signing posts around here).

No i dont spamstring. I used to do some, and I still do a few, but tbh I'd rather refresh rampage/shout in those downtimes(BT and WW on cd). In both logs i used 4 harmstrings.
Also if a WF proc then it eats rage fast with heroic-spam. Id rather use that.

(I'll stop signing from now on)

That's some freak dps, kudos. I see you have a boomkin, so that's 3% extra hit over what most dps warriors have, since it's not very common to find one. Also a couple of other reasons may be your gear level(I can't access europe armory for some reason, but I've seen select players with 5+ sunwell items) and the use of a fast offhand, which I will definitely test next time I raid. My best was just over 2100 dps as fury(using Solarian's so that is a big lower dps) over here: Wow Web Stats .

You had an almost equal percentage of damage from white and heroic strike, so a quick offhand for smooth rage generation at high dps levels seems to be better, at least judging from your numbers.

How much percent Heroic Strike usage has nothing to do with slow or fast offhand, rather you have the skill to play with the weapon setup (slow/slow in particular, most would say its harder to play than slow/fast), and the right support to have enough rage to spam heroic strike almost all the time.

However, the more hit you have with a slow/slow setup, so its easier to play slow/slow ... I have upgraded to 186 hit, and I can say, its very smooth to play now (although wasn't before).

I know for the appearing advances of a fast offhand, I played myself the longest time with a fast offhand and needed a long time to be used to a slow offhand.

However. You can't even "exactly predict" how much rage you will have with a fast offhand, too. You can say its easier to play with a fast offhand, what you can't say is, that you can't play the same playstyle with a slow/slow setup or have the same DPS, or even more, which I try to say, is possible. I have rarely any problems with rage to miss a BT/WW, and only problems with excess rage, when there is extensive damage incoming (both of what you even can't prevent with a fast offhand). On top of that I'm never using hamstring, and rampage is so rarely falling off, that its not worth to speak about. It's a simple fact, that a human being can get used to everything, this includes different playstyles with different weapons without any noticeable disadvantage or loss of DPS.

(wrong weapon equipped in armory, I normally wear dragonstrike + S3 slow sword)

edit: perhaps it is because of 6% anti dodge that I can play so smooth, or because of 2 haste procs. Fact is, most times my weapons are very fast and my offhand won't get any dodges. My excess crit level is preventing that I have problems with Rampage (although I have too much crit socketed, waiting for gem vendor to resocket) and is giving me lots of rage.

I'm not sure I get what you're trying to prove exactly. Care to elaborate?
Everything you've stated has basically been a summary of your personal character and playstyle. Without any sort of WWS for example, it's hard to place your playstyle against claimed performance.

I wanted to claim that playing slow/slow weapon setup is just as fine as playing slow/fast, that's all. Don't have any comparable WWS though, we kill Teron in ~4-5 minutes, and don't fight Brutallus yet. You just have to trust me on my words, then. However, Teron is just spamming heroic strike, there just can't be any difference in HS usage between slow/slow weapons and slow/fast weapons on this encounter. So he claimed, that his HS usage is better on Teron - there is actually nothing to claim there.

edit: typo.

I don't think anyone is doubting the viability of slow-slow . What Perkynose's logs show is not that slow-slow is bad, but rather that slow-fast can work really well as well (although maybe he would have even higher dps with slow-slow, who knows...).

For that matter, if Teron (I still haven't seen that fight yet, we just started BT) really lets you spam HS like crazy, wouldn't fast-fast be the way to go then (or perhaps fast-slow)?

I think Natural did some fast/fast testing a while back. I'm sure there's some wisdom to be shared there.
I don't understand what the value in fast/slow would ever be. If the goal is to HStrike spam, the off-chance your OH misses means huge rage deprivation needed to fuel your MH consumption.

To Kaan:
My Heroic usage is more than than average, so come again

Yes chug those haste pots.

Sublety isnt the way to go. I found i make the least threat of all the melee. Usually if we have a tank death, the boss turns around and chop 1. rogue 2. shammys 3. arms warrior 4. me
Go and get your agi enchant.

Really? Oftentimes, even as the 2h warrior I find myself climbing up on threat(this is WITH salv), do the rogues really climb up so quickly on threat? With a vanish I'd think that they'd be fairly low on threat, I know our rogues GENERALLY(Barring a bad vanish) are fairly low on threat

@Haste pots
I'd definitely use them as fury, I've actually been using them as arms too, execute range+reck+haste+heroism+drums is pretty awesome. I'd try to time all your cooldowns so they're all up at once

Another trick is to simply put an enh shammy in tank group.

How much does this usually increase tank threat generation? We actually run a heavy melee raid most of the time ,but dont have a spare enhancement shaman(at least to my knowledge) that we could bring ing

It'd definitely be nice, maybe 100+ more TPS?

+4-5 block value. Not enough to get very excited about.

Yes of course, a slow OH will always be a bit riskier. But in a situation where you have enough rage to spam HS with a fast MH I guess getting some misses with a slow OH might not hurt terribly. A fast-slow setup will do slightly higher WW damage after all.

Anyway, in a situation with rage overflow (perhaps from lots of incoming damage) and using HS spam fast-slow should be the theoretically best option (lets you pump out HS at a <1.5 sec "cooldown" and gives your WW's some extra punch). But, as you point out, if you're getting rage starved it won't work at all.

Hi Perk,
very impressive to see so much potential, not even for slow/off, even for the whole warrior class.
I'm slow/slow myself and we are on brutallus at the moment. (6x 1% wipes in a row:-)

My group consists of:
Rogue
Enhancement shaman
BM Hunter
RetPaladin
me (fury slow/slow)

When I look into your armory, we have comparable gear (though yours is truly better when i take a look at helmet and belt)
Nevermind, Brutallus fight begins and i can go full out. Up to 20% in can hold (sometimes more sometimes less) just about 1900 dps max, in the <20% phase i go up to 2000.(max ~2100)

What do you think, where the main difference is? I pretty do the normal rotation (bt & ww on cd and throwing in hs) but dps wont increase.

Since Brut has lots of Armor and i had a lot of dodges and parries i changed my gear to lesser ArP and more hit.
Long story here the questions :-)

Do you think ArP is always to prefer or which rating do you think is good for brut? (i can go up to ~1350 ArP without executioner)

How much hit is your minimum for such a slow/fast combination?

And what do you think of Dragonscale Encrusted longblade as fast offhand?

Do you think you could reach such high dps with slow/slow?

And a last one :-)

How do you use the executetime? keep the normal rotation?


thx a lot

Your gear isn't average, your support isn't average and your fights aren't average, Brutallus in 5 minutes, Teron in 2:40 min. Doesn't prove anything to me, and hasn't specifally anything to do with weapon setup. So you claimed slow/fast works (at least) better for you. You saw warriors pre-BC like 1550 DPS @ Patchwerk? When I look at your equip and support, I remember warriors spamming HS like crazy pre-BC. Your HS-usage hasn't anything to do with your weapon setup, but with your items and support overall and the length of the fights. Swimming in rage and therefore spamming Heroic Strike.

To Gruntle:

Fast Mainhand results in higher heroic strike damage, but your Windfury extra swings and your WW's suffer from a fast mainhand. So it would be a slight increase in damage, when it's not even a decrease.

edit:

one more thing to perkynose:

You have stacked lots of haste rating... this obviously pushes out more melee attacks and therefore more HS.

Well, i still dont know what you want to point out. The support he gets is the support of nearly every meleegroup. And his dps speak for their own.
I wouldnt think about trying this setup if the difference were like 100-150 dps. Perky does like 300++ more dps than average. Or how much dps do you do on brutallus with slow/slow?

With regards to WW- I think it's save to claim it accounts for about 10-15% of total dmg contribution and that's being a little lenient (personally, it's always close to being tied for last with Execute). By going fast/slow we're talking about a 20% increase inside of that 10-15%... not exactly chump change, true. However, if the goal is to spam HStrike (which is usually second, or tied with BT for second, in total dmg contribution), then why risk rage deprivation that is already plenty an issue at times? Dare I say: a DW warrior should never have an OH that swings slower than his MH. This claim isn't back-able mathematically, but rings as something that makes sense to me in-game. (Granted, some things in-game can be misleading in terms of optimization).

This is false. 20% more of whatever your MH hits for, plus a bonus AP value. If anything, WF benefits from a fast 1Her. 2Her mechanics are a tad different, but as was talked through, it is the dps of the weapon that governs WF totem usage, not the speed.

Edit: fast:slow ratio corrected in WW comparison based on 1.5 and 2.8spd BT weapon dps values.