Hello everyone, this will be my first post in here :>

Last night i did my first brutallus attempts and kill (new guild). Problem was i didn't feel i was doing enough dps. Looking at my gear you may notice i'm lacking some essential pieces from bt (neck, back, gurtogg pants never seen drop of those in months of bt farming.)

Here is the wws report of the kill: Wow Web Stats

During the fight i had no problems with rage etc. Our group consisted of 2x rogues, me (fury warrior), retri pala and a resto shaman. I was chugging haste pots, timing cooldowns and doing my best, still only landing at 1666 dps made during the fight. We only had 1 drums of battle user in our group. Still i feel my dps should be higher!

Since i cannot figure out what i can do better i was hoping some of you guys could give me some ideas on how to improve, will better gear + enhancement shaman bring me up to the desired dps or am i just a bad dps'er? In BT/Hyjal i have always competed for top spots in in dmg meters, that was with my old guild tho.

Help a poor orc plz!

Looking at your WWS seems you got quite some parries there, at least 3 BT parried that quite huge loss.

You miss improved windfury, +10% AP from melee shaman and perhaps the strength totem? And as said before you have some parries and only 1 drums, and your equip isn't optimal as you said yourself.

So I think your dps is quite normal for the buffs and equip you have. What you're missing is equip and some support, I think.

Ohh shit my placement was really shitty i guess then. Was sure i was standing behind him so didn't even think about that.. Well there ya go.. Thanks for the help, i'll see if it goes better next week then :p

What is the optimal weapon speed for 2h DPS warriors in a raid?

Is slower still > faster?

I am just curious, who would benefit more from an Enhancement Shaman between a Fury Warrior or a Rogue?

Right now in my guild, we've got 1 Arms Warrior, 2 Fury Warrior's, 2 Rogue's, a Feral Druid, and an Enhancement Shaman.

Generally group makeup looks like the following:

Melee DPS Group#1:
-Enhancement Shaman
-Feral Druid
-Arms Warrior
-Rogue
-Rogue

Melee DPS Group#2
-Resto Shaman
-Fury Warrior
-Fury Warrior
-Misc.
-Misc.

My questions are:
1. Would it be wiser to have Fury Warrior's with the Enhancement Shaman over the Rogue's for overall DPS improvements? Or do they both benefit equal and not having one will cause similar DPS loss for both classes.

Our guild just started killing Illidan (3 kills so far...) -- but we've got our eyes on Sunwell and group synergy is a must.

Doppler quick glance shows that you do pretty much ok for your gear/raid setup/consumables. In short - I usually end up around 2300 dps - my highest Bloodthirst crits are around 5200-5400 (that includes shard proc + BT during WF attack so im not sure... 650 extra ap?). Your highest crits are around 3600 - 2/3 of it, and your dps is actually higher then 2/3 of mine. Thats a very rough assessment but it suggest you are doing allright.

Lack of enh shaman contributed to that difference a lot (10% overall ap, and extra 40 or so on extra WF ap, better str totem etc).

Rest is in gear and raid buffs.

Uhh... When did the theorycraft change from DST = 20sec internal cooldown to DST = 45sec internal cooldown?

This has probably been covered but I was unable to find information by searching for it.

My question is, how much of an issue is threat with T6 geared tanks for a fury warrior with both warglaives and the best possible gear from Hyjal/BT and the like. It is a question that was brought up and it was suggested that I ask here for an answer.

I believe it would be an issue with tanks in mostly Tier 5 and some partial Hyjal/BT gear, but I don't believe it would be as much of an issue with 4 piece Tier 6 and the best Hyajl/BT tank gear available.

Any information is greatly appreciated. Also, I apologize in advance if this was no the correct thread to ask this question in.

It's always an issue, sadly. If tank cant do 1000+ TPS on average then a fully geared fury warr will definately be worrying about threat sub 20% when heroisms and recklessness and executes are thrown in to the cycle.

I would say Fury War in the Enchant Shaman group instead the Arms warrior as 10% AP will benefit more on bloodthirst and also high AP by Fury War.

However i prefer any war that willing to wear Solarian Saphire in the Melee group.

It depends alot on group setups, when your raid decides to take away your tanks WF or his shaman dies on Teron then you're fucked. I was for the first time ever threat capped on Teron this reset (with Tranquil Air) and I've experienced the threat cap on all four first fights in sunwell (using Tranquil Air on both Felmyst and Twins), to a greater and lesser extent ofcourse. Your threat is ofcourse alot higher on demons, so expect atleast Anetheron and Archimonde to be problems aswell. I tend to cut or even fully stop using heroics at 40% just to allow myself to make my executing as efficient as possible.

Speaking from my own experience (5/5 MH, 9/9 BT guild), with a first Illidan kill 10 days ago and 2nd kill today, I think I can safely say it depends mostly on your tanks' gear.

We only have 3 tanks in total in the guild (prot warrior, protadin and ferlol), so they all gear up quite quickly.
For example, when we just started MH/BT, threat was not much of an issue. Our MT (prot warrior) was wearing 4/5 T5, taking a fair amount of damage so plenty of rage to spend on abilities.

As his gear got better though, he started avoiding too much damage, lost the threat enhancing bonuses, and it gradually went down a bit. Still, he managed to keep up a steady 900ish TPS depending on how much both him and the boss were avoiding hits.

As a special note: we rarely use WF in his group, only at RoS really, as his threat is good enough on most other fights.



That said, the only fight where I've experienced a threat cap before 20%, is RoS. I can't comment on a fight like Teron much, as we decided to have our Protadin MT there, and he was putting out a steady 1200+ TPS there (gotta love demons + protadins).

Our MT has geared up quite a bit now though, getting the 4pc T6, and now he's back on a steady 1k+ TPS most of the time. Still, fights where I have lots of rage to spend, it can happen that I'm getting too close in the <20% area.
Archimonde has never really been a problem though, our MT has always managed to get above 1k TPS easily there, which works fine for me when you take Air Bursts etc. into account


It all depends on the fight and your/MT gear pretty much. And of course your MT has to have a bit of a clue so he spends his rage on useful stuff

Just my two cents.



P.S. Hi Qruz, update your EJ profile already slacker!

hi guys!

could you have a look at my gear?
Armory
i can take everything up to felmyst. (depends on dkp but we just killed him)
any possible upgrade? (not including t6, know they are )
here is our latest wws as well: WWS
my dps is rly low, around 2kish. if you can see anything from wws what i do wrong please tell me.

regards: Gaiwer

To Gaiwer:

Resocket to more strength. Get Teron cloak if you can. A slower offhand would yield 15-20 DPS increase. Get a [Shard of Contempt] and [Dragonspine Trophy] if you can (both are better trinkets).
Smaller upgrades: X-Bow from badges or throwable weapon from sunwell trash, Illidan ring. Yeah and of course the nice offhand from sunwell trash ([Mounting Vengeance]). Your WWS looks quite normal and right to me. So this are my tips for you. Edit: you specced in to execute ... according to spreadsheets 2% hit overall from precision would be a bit better.

Get the fuck out of here until you learn to read the forum rules.

Last I checked no one knew how to model Imp Execute so that's open for debate. I'd be more concerned about Mongoose on both weapons.

I think Executioner/Mongoose is the accepted norm, I don't have numbers to back it up atm but I remember someone (maybe not on this forum, but probably was) doing some math for it.

I've also seen people try Exec/Exec for increased uptime on executioner but I think they went back to Exec/Mongoose

also @Lode
I noticed you're using double ArP rings, choice or don't have Unstoppable's? I'm toying with going double ArP rings as 2h atm, might switch over to fury sometime in the future(well I'd like to, mainly for a change in playstyle)

I do have the Gurtogg ring. Armor Penetration is just that good. I'd be using the Stormrage Signet if it dropped. As far as Fury vs 2hand, we have a Slam Warrior. If there was only one DPS Warrior spot in guild I'd be Slam for Blood Frenzy. If you're the only DPS Warrior you should probably stay Slam, because it's *usually* better overall for the raid. Of course, if you run a group that is super caster-heavy your mileage may vary.

Your best bet? Go pick out a few WWS parses of your guild. Take every physical class' DPS and move 4% of it to your own DPS. If you can't do more than the number you come up with as Fury spec you're better off staying Arms.

Oh I know that I'm better off as 2h for now :P
I'd just like to go fury for some farm nights because I could fall asleep watching my swing timer, the big numbers aren't too infrequent. Need to quench my thirst for multiple big numbers! I think(judging by my guild raid compositions/WWS) that having BF is like adding 1 1/2 DPS to our raid, mainly because we have something like 3+ rogues, 2~3 hunters, etc.

As for ArP, really that great? I'm running something like 1480 or so in my PvE gear, having another ArP ring would take me straight to like 1600, but my problem there is that it'd really kick my crit, if Dreadboots would ever drop what I'd do is go with double pyrestones(though Lionseye look like they'd be better) and then regem my red belt(R.I.P double Spinel) with crit gems, because my crit is really failing me right now. I'd drop below 30% unbuffed if I used a second ArP ring. The reason I haven't regemmed my belt right now is because A)I use it for PvP ap stacking, and B) two spinels, it feels like a huge waste, its been so bad that I've considered making a second red belt..but I doubt thats the way to go about it haha. So really the main debate is it worth dropping the crit to pick up more ArP? Spreadsheet wise ArP seems to come out on top in terms of stat:dps benefit, but having an atrocious crit rate drops my flurry uptime and such,so its really a throw up for me atm. I'll probably finalize my gear stuff when it actually drops

I noticed your UB crit is absolutely nuts, mines pretty atrocious, and doesn't look like its gonna be getting better, actually I may have dropped below 30% crit already, picked up Leggings of Divine Retribution last week and upgraded from Vengeful :[ It puts me below the hit cap, so I'd like to pick up some hit pieces, but I'm not sure which I'm going to be able to/which would be best to grab, too much competition on offpieces

In a perfect world where I have doubles of some pieces, I'd do lionseye/seaspray in red belt, and then lionseye/pyrestone in my Dreadboots for a nice balance, but alas, our gem vendor hasn't been unlocked so no luck there.

1). Yeah, this seems to be common among Slam Warriors because they get Gurtogg pants AND Cataclysm's and end up with tons of armor pen. If your raid is using full armor reduction debuffs, you might be going past 0 (which does nothing) on some low-armor bosses. Teron Gorefiend, for example, has what, 6900 armor? 6700? At any rate with full raidwide buffs if you have more than 1250 armor pen you're just wasting the stat. For higher armor bosses and bosses where you may not have full raidwide armor removal, then you'll need more penetration to make up for it.

2). Yeah, I got a little crit-crazy a few months back when I was frustrated with my Flurry uptime. I socketed many Lionseyes. For future gear upgrades I will be integrating more Spinels and Pyrestones.

The spreadsheet I use favors executioner in OH past a certain gear level which is around mid BT. Is the sheet known to be wrong or something?

You could opt socketing for Crit instead of 10str 5str/5crit gems. I recently did it (used to have pyrestones in everything) since my rage generation on Brutallus and my flurry uptime was depressing me, it's worked out rather nice and it's actually a dps increase over the pyrestone gem setup.

(not sure if you are using pyrestones/spinels seeing as you are in pvp gear :P)