Same as cranberry, first post but been reading these forums for ages.

got a question about what neck to get as replacment for my [Pendant of the Perilous]. i have access to both [Choker of Serrated Blades] and [Choker of Endless Nightmares]?

i presonally like the supremus neck because of it`s hitrating, seeing as it`ll be one of the few items i`ll wear with hit endgame.

also wich cloak should i use? have [Dory's Embrace] atm, is [Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape] enough of a upgrade for me as a arms warrior to use dkp on or should i start saving for sunwell loot?(farmed illidan for 4 weeks now, so we`ll be in sunwell anytime now.)



about the extra damage taken from zerker stance i don`t know about sunwell. altho i don`t really see myself going very low on stamina anytime soon(below 12k raidbuffed). getting the 3 sunwell T6 parts i`ll loose 92 stamina, and getting a new neck i`ll loose another 24. wich will bring me to 9800 or so unbuffed. replace some of the 0sta items with vindicator items wich aren`t that much worse dps for a warrior and you`ll be fine imo. again, spoken from a pre-sunwell pow.

Edit: for the lazy ones my stats are 34.30% crit, 1842ap, 122 hitrating and almost 1200 armor ignore atm unbuffed in zerker stance

I'd take the Choker, but hold off on Shadowmoon for a bit, let the rogues/hunters take it IMO, Dory's is pretty damn good as arms(Unless no rogues need it, its your call, Shadowmoon is a nice cloak)
The illidan ring wouldn't hurt either, has high ArP+hit

Also
Nice shoulder enchant, haha.

@ Dianne and Cranberry

As a sidenote, [Vengeance Wrap] is a fantastic back item that seems to go overlooked, don't think that [Dory's Embrace] is your only option prior to [Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape].

Please don't forget that the members of these forums have provided tools for you to answer your own questions. All it takes is some time. If you don't have this already, go to this thread and download the spreadsheet. Plug in your own gear/spec and swap out items to find the best set up with the upgrades available to you.

I tested it this week on 2 days, will spec 17/44 for sunday (because Azgalor and Archimonde are aggrocapping me otherwise) and test it again next week. My experiences are, that Death Wish brings you ahead 17/44 spec, when the fights are short enough (Akama, Teron, Rage Winterchill, Anetheron) or have phases where you do zero damage and then come in again (Illidan, perhaps RoS because of P2, Gurtogg). Sword spec along with the -10% Aggro you lose is sometimes VERY spiky in aggro. You'll sometimes be 10-20% under the tank in aggro, then have some lucky WF-Swordspec critchains and pull aggro off the tank (but this is rather bad luck). The other thing is, you lose 250 ap and overall 10% AP. Sword spec and Death Wish need to balance this, and can in shorter fights as mentioned before. Sword spec will give you lots of rage, you will have spare rage because you don't use Rampage. So with the right gear (I think you need at least 200 to 230 hit to play well with this spec) and some haste items, that push sword spec further, and right usage of Death Wish, I think 26/35 can pull ahead of 17/44. The spec is A LOT steadier in almost everything but aggro. The aggro is the only problem with this spec - the damage is nice, it's making a lot fun to play and Death Wish kicks ass, but when you have aggro problems you simply need to wait at the start of the fight, or make damage breaks. The biggest problem is, when your aggro grows to the end of the fight and you simply need to make a damage break, otherwise pulling aggro when Death Wish + Recklessness and executing sub 20% of the boss. However, my biggest problems were bosses that have aggro resets: RoS, Gurtogg, sometimes Illidan, the other bosses going easy. There you will need either damage stops at the start and/or damage stops in the middle of the fight to execute with cooldowns sub 20%.
I think 26/35-spec will have a shiny future in Sunwell, because there are almost no bosses (although I don't know anything about Kil'jaeden), with kind of any aggro resets, except perhaps for Felmyst (?).

Note: I played with 198 hit, two S3 weapons (slow and fast for maximum sword spec). The best weapon setup will easily be with both Slow Mainhand and Warglaive, or double Warglaive.

[Cloak of Darkness] is also on par with Vengeance Wrap and Dory's, and is a wonderful place to stick a blue gem for your meta.

You can basically skip all of the other cloaks between dinging 70 and killing Gorefiend if you just spend some money on a Vengeance Wrap or a Cloak of Darkness.

Okay lets talk about the future of a DPS warrior.
Leaked warrior talents are out.

Fury
Titan's Grip: Dual Wield 2-Handed weapons and attack slower with them. Attack less slow up to 20% slower with full talent ponts.
Assumptions:
Shift normalization from 2.4 to 3.6
Shift swing avg speed from 2.6 to 4.3
Implications:
Unpredictable and/or spikey rage generation
Very high whirlwind damage, possibly outdamaging bloodthirst
Attack speed so slow flurry uptime will be very high
Benefit of having stat pool of 2 2-Handed weapons
Improved slam and use of slam will be viable
Heroic strike will become increasingly difficult to use effectively
Executing with Titan-Grip weapons will not be effective at all, will have to switch to fast/fast

Bloodsurge: Fully talented, a Bloodthirst crit will make your next slam instant.
Implications:
Along with the new viability of improved slam using Titan-Grip will make this talent very useful
Will make the value of crit skyrocket in a sense critting a BT will give you an instant attack
Spending the talent points for this is questionable with the use of improved slam

Furious Resolve: Basically a threat reducer when it comes to raiding, not that important

Intensify Rage: Increases rage generated by damage taken by 10/20%
Implications:
Fights seem to be becoming more and mroe rage damage heavy. Along with the use of well-timed Berserker Rage, can give you much welcomed large rage spikes in between watching paint dry when waiting for your swing timer using Titan-Grip

Heroic Leap: Leap attack dealing 50% weapon damage in an AoE circle
Implications:
Doesn't sound so great for a raid environment depending on rage cost, but it sounds absolutely amazing for adventure-type environments and farming. May work decently in a dps rotation if the cooldown is high and the rage cost is moderate.
Could possibly couple the daze effect with increased damage from heroic strike.

Arms:
Trauma: Fully talented, increases bleed effects on the target of your critical strikes by 30%.
Implications: If your raid has rogues, dps warriors, or feral druids, this talent may be useful, but it doesnt seem too great.

These were touted as the "official" warrior talents that were mined from The Burning Crusade. What makes finding Titan Grip this time around different from last time?

They seem to generally make a little more sense this time in terms of what went where, and just in general. Though hurling a weapon would have been badass. Seeing as the warrior ones make a decent amount of sense we're just hoping devs weren't dumb with talents this time around(hello ER, useless for a long ass time, still useless for PvE)

Apart from the fact that this Titan's Grip is actually decently designed, in the right tree and reasonably balanced for a deep tree talent, Blizzard didn't fake its own Alpha client. This is spell and talent data, not some screenshots that anyone can manipulate.

Actually, in addition to what has been said, the pre-TBC "leak" had TG with a damage penalty rather than a speed penalty.

I'm still going to wait and see because of so very many unknowns, but it's a nice preview of something.

Hmm, if you can get Titan's Grip with only 50 points in Fury, it might be worth it to skip Heroic leap, Bloodsurge, etc. and get 4/5 2H weapon spec.

It also makes fury a bit more viable for PVP, like it was pre BC. I also saw some more talents / abilities but maybe those were fake? There was one that increased your AP depending on how high your armour is. Which sounds fury-ish.

Wielding 2x 2h may also put more emphasis on the hit cap. A miss with a 2h is a huge loss of rage, but when you hit/crit you can probaly get a full rage bar anyway. Time will tell I guess, but im very much looking forward to dualwielding 2h'ers. Lets hope it stays in this time.

Would instant slams from bloodsurge still reset your swingtimer?
If they don't, we could be seeing some insane burst damage from fury in both pvp and pve.
Imagine something like:
whitex2-> improved slam-> bloodthirst-> instant slam-> Whitex2-> Improved slam-> whirlwind, and on top of that windfury.

To make it even more interesting, why not a 25/46 build with slower attack speed, but with extra attacks from swordspec.

Assuming that the slam is not undergoing any changes to what it is now, its going to make a slam a major factor in fury dps.

With the swing timers of 2 2 handed weapons hitting giving you undoubtedly a full rage bar and then not swinging again for 3.6ish seconds then a bloodthirst - slam - ww - slam will become the staple and extremely high PvE dps choice. Its a very clever solution the problems caused by weilding 2 2handers. The downtime waiting between swings for the next instant would be unbearable

The problem is if it resets your swing timer. It's somewhat acceptable if they fix it so that it only affects the main hand swing timer. Having your offhand reset as well (which is how it works now) honestly makes the ability to Slam after a crit Bloodthirst, instant or not pretty crappy on paper in any PvE application except for finishing off trash instead of blowing all of a rage surplus on Execute. It might be very nice burst in PvP, but unless the swing timer reset gets resolved, or better yet removed, it doesn't seem that great. I wouldn't be suprised if this (Titan's) was just Blizzard's way of trying to reduce competition for specific items between classes. Instead of drawing from the same pool as Rogues, Shamans, Paladins and Death Knights we would essentially only be infringing upon Paladins and Death Knights.

Im pretty sure everyone would agree that improved berserker stance removing the dmg taken penalty would be a good thing. Its fine from pvp point of view, there is really little problem from pve one.

I doubt the fury warrior will ever be, dependant, on the windfury totem.
Sure, we have always gained a great increase in dps from it, but with dual twohanded weapons we will only gain even more.

And thus become even more dependant on it. It's all about comparative DPS, obviously nobody is saying that a warrior can't swing a weapon anymore without windfury, but the more potent WF becomes for us, the worse we'll be without it compared to other classes.

But we get WF all the time anyway, so whats the problem?

I also wonder about the wording on titans grip. 20% slower so 20% less damage, or 20% slower so just harder hitting attacks? My guess would be the former. Whenever we get something really nice, there is often a downside. Even if its the former will still have more effective DPS than 2x 1h.

Because Fury is already outpaced by MS/BF in terms of RDPS, which in case anyone has missed it, is all the emphasis these days. This move would pidgeonhole Fury further. And no, there are plenty of realistic scenarios I could illustrate showing how 'we' don't get WF 100% of the time.

With regards to DW 2H: as a DW Fury, I know rage generation is often spiky enough as is. At 70 in BT gear, there are plenty of times I jump from 30ish rage to 90ish off of MH/OH/WF crits happening inside of the same GCD (case worsened with haste effects). This would only be accentuated with 2Hers, going from rage depravity to rage cap, and thus, nerfing potential dps. For those MS/BF currently raiding, a simple crit usually generates roughly 50-60rage in a raid environment? If OH dps is nerfed by 50, and we witness a WF proc as well, we're looking at 150rage from 0 if the aforementioned takes place. Thus far, I've not seen anyone examine this side of the picture.

[Edit] For clarity: I am demonstrating that the rage generation being as choppy as it is sometimes at 70, will be worse at 80, and that the strike values of 2H will push the rage gained past cap often enough that rage will be lost on a regular basis. While I have provided a simple, albeit extreme example (3x crit from MH/OH/WF), any raiding warrior knows it doesn't take much to be pushing rage cap as is.

The rage calculation is likely to be changed again anyway, as it was before TBC. Otherwise at 80 you will get a full rage bar very fast indeed.

There is the rage spike problem, but thats a problem now. I can go from nothing to a full rage bar with a WF crit and MH crit. The only way it could be fixed is have have rage use the same sort of steady gain as rogues do, and im sure nobody wants that.

There is also as you noted the MS vs Fury argument. Personally I hope WOTLK is back to how it used to be and should be in my opinion. Arms = PVP. Fury = PVE.

Blizzard stated that they wanted 2h DPS to be fairly equal to DW. Why, I have no idea, but it's their words, and it seems like their goal with BF was to make it equal to DW output. The reverse is happening until a Fury Warrior has the Warglaive *set* or unless you run an unusual amount of casters in your raids however. I can't really speak for anyone who normally raided with a 2h, but it seems like the viability issue was a matter of not wanting to have to compete with other DW users as well as having a weapon to PvP with or simply using their PvP weapon for PvE. Titans Grip will basically all but remove that argument (unless BF simply scales too well at 80). People will have their 2h that maybe they gained through Arena (paired with some other) and also be able to spec the highest Warrior raid DPS as Fury. This also gives Fury more PvP viability than it has now, although it remains to be seen if it will be enough to compete with Arms in the long run or if it's more of a "do or die now" burst playstyle instead of a draining/endurance style.