Kiranat

Do you think it's still worth using Execute in the slam rotation though? Perhaps in place of shout/whirlwind and keep going with MS? Another question leading off that is assuming you're doing a slam rotation and you're dropping below swing time do you just spam instants (execute included)? In my case with DST/drums it happens very often and I've got a feeling it's hurting my damage to keep the rotation going.

Also, I've been using hit food to stay capped as I do find that getting misses can really throw off my rotation - worth using Strength food over it, or stick with +hit?

 

Graul

You can't really even do this unless you proc sword spec off of it because you won't be able to Slam again until after your next white attack landed instead of starting it just before it lands.

 

Kiranat

Yeah, I only ask that way because I've seen a lot of posts about continuing to execute with 2 out. I'll try a few different things during next weeks raid and post back with some results, ideas

 

Kupeludo

Wow Web Stats

This is our latest Brut. Our arms warrior in that is our second prot warrior, with only two sunwell dps items being bracers and belt. Has no cursed vision and was using solarian, we had no leader of the pack. So, provided with adequate sunwell gear (to match the fury warriors doing 2700 dps) a career arms warrior will be easily pushing 2k IMO with the same support shown in Wow Web Stats . Maybe a lot more to be honest.

 

Mode

Is it really fair to include Recklessness when discussing the DPS a warrior should be putting out? Maybe that's why everyone here is talking past each other with regard to what warriors should be putting out.

 

• Mjollnir

*Shrug* If an Arms pops Reck, and so does a Fury, it kinda evens out. Granted, the Fury will hit far more during the 15sec duration and will therefore make better use of it... but a Fury outdoes an Arms in straight up dps anyhow. So it scales the same as any other ability between the two. I think it's rather moot to include Reck or not.

[Edit] Slaving a response to this post. With regards to the comment on 2300dps by Arms: I cannot relocate it and I clear my cache nearly daily. It is possible I am misquoting what I saw, and cannot prove my claim.

 

milanista11

Some Arms warrior put Improve Disciplines though which increase duration into 19 secs (that 4 seconds can make difference)

 

Draugrim

I think the more important question, which I still haven't been able to playtest accurately, is in what situation, if any, does it benefit Arms or Fury to swap to 2 fast weapons during execute range. Seems to be something most warriors have their own opinion about but is difficult to model accurately enough to have a definitive answer.

 

• landsoul

having 2 fast weapons definately helps execute better at lower rage levels. when all your cooldowns are finished (reck, haste pot, heroism) switch to 2 fast weapons and your executes will be much cleaner

 

Beefcakes

Is it better to use a haste potion with bloodlust? or wait till BL is gone? DW warrior here, thinking of the brutallus fight mostly.

 

Daerwen

haste effects used together will provide the same benefit as when you use em 1 after another. Therefor it doesnt matter if you pop bloodlust + haste pot, or use bloodlust, and after its run out use haste pot. Provided the battle is the same length, it wont matter. If you wanna get more bang for you buck during heroism/bloodlust, you can pop a insane str potion as that will scale with the haste from bloodlust/heroism

 

Graul

Why would they if you use Death Wish, Recklessness or a Berserkers Call during the stacked haste? You can also beat the GCD with stacked haste at 20% instead of spreading it out as well.

 

Grayson Carlyle

Definitely quite a bit more than 2k.

My gear is only a bit behind Shha's; 2 pieces of Sunwell, Solarian's. I'm on demo duty.

Wow Web Stats

No druid, ret pali was in the "extra" group with hunters and healers and I forgot to use my 2nd [Elixir of Demonslaying] I did get 2 Bloodlusts though, like Shha. However, I didn't execute because the 2nd bloodlust was at 35%, before my death wish and potion were even up again. I was looking forward to breaking 2k with a nice finish blowing everything at once, but instead I kept up the rotation. This was the first kill I was able to sustain a full rotation the entire time without having rage problems, though I did clip an auto attack once.

Blood Frenzy contributed ~526 (raid) DPS from the rogues, hunters, tanks and ret paladin.

I really want to try him with a [Shivering Felspine] and Poleaxe spec, just to see if rage gen. is more consistent, as I think I got lucky with it tonight.

 

milanista11

Nice dps there, just wander seeing your WWS you only got 2x Unleashed Rage, did you get swapped in middle or fight?

My guild just recently work on Brutalus and i swap into Arms, but my guild somehow struggle to get Enchant Shaman online. I find it really hard to dps as arms without a windfury.

Also what factor make your Slam crit that high (4601), i think my gear is not that far behind from yours but i hardly seeing my slam higher that 4k only (that also in Deathwish period)

 

Daerwen

Basicly I ment if its purely bloodlust + pot. I was referring to his specific question wether its better to use a haste pot during heroism or after. Sorry I didnt translate it into a execute phase situation.

If you combine bloodlust with a haste pot alone, it doesnt matter wether you use it after or during the bloodlust if its the same time span. If you combine it with stuff like deathwish and recklessness + trinket + pot, then you should use that pot DURING bloodlust, and not after, to gain a bigger advantage of youre recklessness/deathwish/trinket on top of bloodlust.

 

Grayson Carlyle

Unfortunately, looks like the merge fucked up and ~200,000 extra damage was added to the parse from duplicates. My DPS was probably closer to 1935.

I didn't get swapped though; the fact that Unleashed Rage was only applied to me twice is exceptionally good, it means my shaman kept critting a lot, so it nearly never fell off. He only had it once, so in fact it only fell off me when he was swapped out for the 1st Bloodlust.

My unbuffed AP is relatively low, as I gem for crit, so my highest slam is a fair bit lower than Modrack's (4735), and he actually had an incredible 5080 Mortal Strike. (his WWS from the last page: Wow Web Stats). If you don't run with a Survival Hunter, that'll take off 200 at least from your highest crits. Everything else is pretty normal for the fight: Unleashed Rage, CoR, Elixir of Demonslaying, Faerie Fire, 5xSunder...

 

Adrammelech

I think we can also assume all those bleed effects will stack further with Mangle.

 

• Mjollnir

1. The talent is still lackluster. 15rage for 1250dmg + 1250dmg under optimal conditions. Mangle won't be on 5 targets at once realistically speaking. More can be done with this, or perhaps there is a scaling attribute that isn't being incorporated.
2. Bleed effects account for less than 2% of total dps. And 2% is being generous.
3. I have no control whatsoever on an NPC becoming enraged. If we are talking bosses hitting enrage timers, the fight is won or lost already. The pitiful dps gain from becoming enraged really matters little.

In a PvP or solo grinding senario, there could be applications. (I've merged some of the topics).

 

Klitor

I believe they changed Imp Rend to increase your rend and bloodbath abilities by 275% or something like that. It actually seems like a pretty nice ability, although we don't know if there will be a lot of AOE situations in WotLK like in Hyjal. Time will tell.

 

Shha

Well BF is worth it for a lot of guilds. The only thing I ever said is that its not ALWAYS worth it. There are _real_ raid setups used by a considerable amount of guilds where BF is NOT worth it.

Graul i tried your "style" on todays Brutallus and it was working amazingly well. 1971 dps without a single slam use. BF debuff basically makes up for the dps loss (not a big surprise we run melee heavy, and BF was always worth it - just we had someone else usually do it). The interesting part is - 1971 dps while keeping imp clap and demo both. Especially clap completely screws slam rotation , so Id risk saying that way outperforms slamming. I dont think I could get 2k with slam use (not with my ping anyway but even beside that), while keeping clap. Demo? Maybe, clap, not a chance.

I kind of wonder what would be my "result" just going with 2h fury - gaining 600 ap 10% white and WW dmg vs losing 5% total due to SS ... interesting question .

Anyway back to other stuff - executes. I definitely think most spreadsheets are wrong with the dual wield switch. My execute as 2h were by FAR better then ever with fury.

1s) With capped expertise, you never miss anything. Not white attacks, not executes. You ALWAYS have rage on intervals equal to your weapon speed. Thats huge.

2s) Deathwish and improved recklessness are nuts. On brutallus i fucked up on our kill with DW and had no reck up (thats why 1971 could be way higher), but before... I just wait till Dst is about to Proc, (cooldown over), pop DW. Execute away with 1st Dst buff then haste pot with reck. Recklessness executes breakdown:

136 base haste, 80 drums = 216. With dst proc ~540 with haste pot ~610. Thats lets average it 35% haste.

3.5 Cataclysm speed.
3.5/[ 1.15(flurry)* 1.3(Heroism)*1.35(Haste)]=2 seconds.
Sure its a waste of gcd a bit. But my dps was still a lot higher because of complete predictability and rage generation. No miss streaks no wasting of 3 sec waiting for rage etc.

Recklessness for 19 seconds basically gives you:
6k white(including the 20% dmg from WF)
8.5k execute.
thats over 7k dps easily. My fury recklessness was getting around 5k dps tops.

Other executes during heroism (basically whole last 20%). - 4k white average, 5k executes around. Still 4k dps.

With smart haste use, execute phase actually shines with 2h. With my 9% hit dual wielding fast weapons wouldnt produce close to same results really.

P.S. Our enhancement shaman broke 2500 today on brutallus... it kinda feels "not right". You can talk about how BF adds 630 dps to raid. She adds 700+dps to every person in her group ^_^.

P.P.S 6300 Mortal strike crits are yummy (felmyst though, on brutallus i didnt had 4 piece t6 - stacked more ArP, on felmyst since i was capped i switched some gear to get more AP and 4pct6).

 

• Mjollnir

You have a parse for the attempt Shha?

 

milanista11

Nice info there, just wander how much ArP you put for Brutallus ?

 

Graul

Glad to see you tried it out and it was working for you. I still have not yet been able to try Brutallus like this yet, and last night was only the second raid night on farm content where I was able to mess around with this, but I was getting similar results to the previous WWS I posted, so at least I know it wasn't just some random fluke. And yeah, 2h Executes are better I believe, especially since you can break the GCD, and even after the haste effects start to scatter and your weapon might slow down a little bit more, it's still worth it simply because of not missing. You also miss a GCD when you switch weapons, or close enough to it anyway.

The limiting factor to this though is that I think you really need a DST and at the very least a sword. Every person that I had ever read about doing this had both.

 

Shha

1536 or so. Btw since it seems to work for me, I guess i really like the changes to Apolyon. 3.4 speed = better executes, and weapon speed really doesnt matter that much for me (slightly lower MS and sword specs, slightly more efficient HS, but difference isnt great - and rage generation is more stable - especially with extra haste). No ArP is actually a good thing - since we run with imp expose, my "soft cap" before executioner proc is 870 or so, so actually getting RID of ArP seems to be a good thing.

Or maybe i should just get a set with 1710 ArP for 6200 bosses and go back to mongoose on CE... thats something to consider too. Stable 0 armor at enemy + getting 4% crit/2% haste as proc doesnt seem all that bad.

 

Nikodermos

So I'm a bit confused What exactly is this "no slam" rotation that Graul & Shha are discussing here?

Is is contingent on having a DST, for the increased haste?

Thanks in advance for any help.