Graul

In a nutshell it's just using your instants as soon as their cooldown is up, using Hamstring when one of them is on cooldown and you have at least 40 rage and using Heroic Strike at 60+ rage (which happens a lot with the frequent spikes up to 100). I also use Drums + Haste Potions + Blood Fury every time they are up as well as trying to use either the second or last Death Wish at BL/20%. I keep saying that it seems like it requires a few very specific items to even be useable, but that's just an opinion right now.

 

milanista11

I think no slam rotation better for ppls with high ping (i usually averaging 500-600ms) gonna try no slam probably for this week raid.

I just wander the reason you throw hamstring is to get sword spec proc?

 

Graul

Flurry, BF, DST, SoC, Enchants and Sword Spec.

 

Graul

22:12'57.015 Graul's Swing crits Coilskar Sea-Caller for 2283 Physical damage
22:12'57.781 Graul's Swing hits Coilskar Sea-Caller for 1129 Physical damage
22:12'58.656 Graul's Mortal Strike hits Coilskar Sea-Caller for 1382 Physical damage
22:12'59.921 Graul's Whirlwind hits Coilskar Sea-Caller for 1154 Physical damage
22:13'00.234 Graul gains Executioner

22:12'31.828 Graul's Swing hits Aqueous Spawn for 971 Physical damage
22:12'32.890 Graul's Hamstring hits Aqueous Spawn for 44 Physical damage
22:12'34.953 Graul gains 1 Attack from Sword Specialization

 

Ramayana

I started seeing more and more posts about this over the past few days, gonna have to give it a shot next time I'm at Brut. Quick question though, once all is said and done, and you have your ideal gear, will you still be keeping your 4 peice bonus? Or will you get Twins shoulders, Crafted Chest, KJ Gloves, etc. Personally I am leaning more towards keeping T6 shoulders, but the way this rotation works the Twins shoulders are actually very nice, along with the Brut legs.

 

Graul

I just recently picked up the shoulders after passing on them for months due to them not being a big upgrade over the Blood-Stained without the four piece bonus. And until Sunwell, it wasn't really worth trying to chase. I don't know how dead on accurate the spreadsheets are with the bonus, but it puts the Onslaught at least equal to, if not better than any of the others in Sunwell. Plus they look better than any of the other shoulders. I also don't have the chest, but the shoulders, boots, belt and bracer, so I definitely want to upgrade my chest sometime.

 

• Morsexy

I realize I'm starting to get all "QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ" about this topic, but man it is beyond time for warriors to push getting rid of extra damage in bers stance, through a talent if we absolutely MUST keep it for arena.

Experiencing the KJ fight there is yet again, tons of crap all over the place hitting everyone for 91% of what I am getting hit for. I realize that there will always be a place for a warrior in a raid given how insane battleshout is for 4 other melee classes, but you are consistantly taking the most damage of anyone in the group. Assuming WoTLK will be featuring these types of encounters more regularly, I hope this get adjusted.

 

Mardraum

Plate dps gear is itemized for more stam to make up for it, thats my guess.

 

• LodeRunner

Some of these numbers that get thrown around here are just mind boggling. Shha's 2700 parse of Brutallus still confounds me. I reassure myself by telling myself things like "oh, they're using two personal-dps trinkets instead of Solarian's" and, "oh, they've got some freaky group comp where they get an Enh Shaman, a Feral Druid, and a Ret Paladin somehow all in the same group and are getting Blood Frenzy as well" and "oh, they're using Imp EA instead of Sunder". Still, even under those incredibly ideal circumstances I'd be hard pressed to pull off 2700.

I've only personally done Brutallus once because there's only room for one DPS Warrior in our regular roster and for that fight and the Arms Warrior has dibs until his loot drops. I got burned twice and switched to Battle for most of it, then Defensive for the last 10 seconds to minimize burn. That, of course, gimped my damage but I still only ended up at like 1950 on it.

I don't know. You darn punks with your Imp EA and two personal DPS trinkets are making the rest of us look bad!

 

Graul

That may have been the case before, but a handful of items that had stats allocated specifically for DPS have no stamina, which almost seems like a backwards way of doing things. I noticed also when we first started doing Sunwell that I was taking more damage from AE effects on average than I had in any of the previous zones. BT and Hyjal had their fair share of AE obviously, but they seemed to come in smaller chunks of damage at a time, and even the big waves were not that bad to heal through and almost never put me even at half life. This was of course when I also had a little over 600 more hit points.

[Onslaught Belt]
[Onslaught Bracers]
[Onslaught Treads]

The reduction of stamina isn't so bad by itself, but in conjunction to the increased damage taken in Berserker it's pretty annoying.

I'm sure RNG has a lot to do with it, as well as buffs and debuffs getting bounced or simply falling off of Brutallus, but on our first kill I only did around 1980, but then on the next did 2190 and then 2299 after that. I personally did nothing different and the raid makeup was the same. The first kill time took around 20 seconds longer, but the last two did not have greater than a 5 second disparity.

 

Hozz

2700 DPS on Brutallus is extremely atypical. I would venture to guess that maybe a handful of Warriors have done that or better.

Berserker stance needs to have that penalty removed. There are far too many encounters where constant damage is part of it, and its a huge drawback to Warriors in a DPS role.

I also think they need to rethink the 110% for melee and 130% for ranged aggro snap thresholds.

 

shed

That's really funny considering all the T6 plate in Sunwell has 0 stam (i guess you can count the socket bonus for some peices as stam?).

Raid buffed I have less than 10K HP these days.

 

• Morsexy

And furthermore, we are the only class itemized in such a way... perhaps to prevent Arena usage? I know I am still using t6 bracers, regardless of the lack of stam ( Maybe I would switch to Furious Shackles for 5's ).

Which at this point, given the "rushdown" aspect of rogue gearing, I find so rediculous as to be stupid in the extreme.

I'm hoping to pick up a DST soon to test out this no slam DPS with an Apolyon, and perhaps some haste stacking along with smart ArPen items. I remember when I first switched to fury from 2h MS in the Molten Core days, and I felt overwhelmed with the amount of crap going on. Now after babysitting my swing timer for the last 10 months going fury feels pretty liberating.

Perhaps there is a nice middle ground where you have a white - > slam ratio of something like 5:1 which would combine the best of both worlds, and only slam when you're 99% sure of a good slam, and only that small chance of clipping a sword proc.

 

Mardraum

I dunno im at 14k raid buffed and i have all the t6 set pieces from sunwell + BT/hyjal gear...

 

• LodeRunner

Why yes... you certainly do. That's a lot of tier 6.

 

Shha

Personal dps trinkets actually end up better in my math. Especially if your guild does the 4:30 kills, you just put solarian on, battleshout on pull then switch it out. 2-3 mins of improved battleshout - and personal trinket there - best of 2 worlds.
As for group comp - i never had all 3 feral/ret/enh. Basically my group setups is typical for a guild thats melee heavy. If you run 2 melee groups, thats what you usually end up with.

Ironically enough, I can do a lot better now. I got tons of upgrades since last time, but threat starts to really be an issue. Im not sure what kind of threat your tanks put, but 2700 was already taxing for me - i was riding 100+% aggroand had to cut heroics few times, and skip one BT/WW/BT. All in all its around 1400 sustained TPS, on a fight where while rage flooded, your tanks dont exactly go with aggro gear. Maybe its our druids too - they do fine aggro on some fights and good OT, but i guess with endless rage, expertise capped sunwell warriors would do better. Anyway I really dont think ill be beating 2700 significantly anytime soon - unless i start doing crap like getting a DI from our ret etc. Im threat capped at ~2700 when my gear i believe allows for 2900-3000 currently. Partly the reason why I experiment with 2h for him - fury gets old really fast where you have no room to improve.

EDIT: As for hp, both Shed and Madraum are exagerating. Shed has about same stamina on gear as me - thats realm of 12500 raid buffed. Didnt check Madraum but i doubt 14k. Still even if we have 10% more hp than rogues, thats 10% more healing to be done as well...

 

Mardraum

If we run 2 dps warriors in the melee group we get imp commanding shout == 14k

 

Crimsonstorm

I thought this didnt work? When you equip a different trinket your AP provided by that battle shout goes down.
I tried this in arena and thats what I found. (Or does it only not work in arenas?)

 

Rishina

What I find more perplexing is every other class / spec has stamina on their T6 sunwell items.

The T6 sunwell items as I recall went through 3 versions. The first had pretty bad stats and high stamina. The second had better stats, but stamina removed. Then the third they added stamina to all but the warrior DPS set. Now this would make sense if the warrior DPS items had better DPS stats than the other classes, so that the same budget had been spent, but as can be seen by comparing our T6 sunwell gear to ret paladins T6 gear, this isn't the case. They have near identical stats and stamina. Blizzards motive for this? I guess is to stop us wearing it in arena, but why should that only affect us, and not other classes? Seems very unfair..

 

• LodeRunner

The extra AP stays on the other 4 people you buffed, but you personally lose the 87.5 AP. This, of course, is made up for by the DST/Shard you just equipped in its stead.

 

DarthGreg

Did not know this! I assumed that when the extra AP fell off of me it fell off of my group, good info.

 

Kaan

The only piece where you lose high amounts of stamina when switching to a T6 piece are the boots.

Bracers of Eradication (socketed with 10 Str) -> Onslaught Bracers = -9 Stam (Eradication has 12 Stam, Onslaught Bracers 3 (Socket Bonus)).

Red Belt of Battle (socketed with purple/orange) = 28 Stam.

37 Stam therefore lost with switching 2 pieces.

Dreadboots of the Legion -> Onslaught Treads = -40 Stam (!)

This results in a overall loss of 770 LP. Not THAT bad I think. Anyway you get stamina back with some SWP items (for example, the Thrown weapon out the trash). But the fact that we haven't more stats but zero stamina on SWP T6 gear is holding on...

 

Ramayana

Here's a WWS of the Teron tonite (bad M'uru group, QQ) using the no-slam rotation for the first time.

Wow Web Stats

Was grouped with 2 rogues, another DPS war, and an enhancement shammy I beleive, with no elixirs/pots and whatnot, overall I liked it, but it will take a little getting used too, as it's a lot different then slam rotation. I'd like to give it a try on Brutallus next week in Sunwell to get a better read on DPS, but looks promising so far. I didn't get a sub-20% heroism which kind of sucked, but with DST and flurry being up made it ok.

If I had to decide right now I'd say DST is an absolute must, the haste proc makes the rotation great.

The rotation is most definitly promising though, looking forward to trying it out some more on different fights.

As of me posting this armory spec and gear isn't updated btw, only gear swap was DST for Beserkers, and spec is 33/28 but with 2 pts in Imp Execute instead of Imp Slam.

P.S. ROS kind of sucked with it, I spent almost all of phase 2 threat capped. >< Definitely one of the downsides of the rotation.

 

DarthGreg

We might get more STA on our T6.5 pieces if armor wasn't considered in the item budget. I'm surprised I don't hear more people complaining about it. The fact that our gear has less stats allocated to it just because it's plate seems rather absurd.

 

• Morsexy

But so does any class that can use the items we can use, along with their better itemization + less damage taken. I would argue as well that the reason there is the greatest disperity between the stamina values of the boots is merely that the BT boots just happen to be the best item of those 3 slots, not to mention the belt being 2 tiers old ( tier 4.5 to 6.5 or something).

I calculate that we lose 1056 health. 28 stam from belt, bracers and 40 from boots + kings. Given the fact that raid wide damage has increased by some factor on top of which we take the most damage in a raid wide damage scenario along with losing 10% of our health. I guess this would make sense if this current set of raid gear was balanced finally by someone with an arena mindset, but I find that annoying, or discouraging, given how prevalent rogue pve gear is in arena settings. This desire for t6 is at least far more than it is for warriors, unless people are playing a different game than I am where I get owned in about 2 seconds in 5's with 350-380 Resil coupled with a stun.