You can't "Shout & Switch". If you switch Solarian's out your attack power drops. I have not checked if your groups' attack power also drops but I suspect it would.
As some have said before:the correct way to fix it would be to make it not affect further ranks of battle shout. Alternatively, they could make equivalent of trinket for future quest rewards. If they don't do either of these--then we have something to complain about.
You can't "Shout & Switch". If you switch Solarian's out your attack power drops. I have not checked if your groups' attack power also drops but I suspect it would.
I noticed that almost all of the best fury warriors use a DST, which leads me to believe that it's ridiculously overpowered for a trinket that drops off of Gruul. If they don't have a DST they have a Warglaive or two instead.
I use Tsunami/SoC, but for some reason my DPS is constantly lacking. I know it's not lack of skills because I've been playing a warrior since beta and I used to top meters easily before DST was even created. I've copied just about everything off these top-end warriors but DST (since it never drops for me) but my DPS simply refuses to go up.
In a word, yes. The only strict personal DPS upgrade from DST/SoC combo for Fury is [Blackened Naaru Sliver]. If you want a quantifiable justification, use the spreadsheet.
I was hoping some of you guys could possibly point out something I may be missing or give me an objective perception of something I’m overlooking.
I am trying to maximize my PVE raid dps. In Hyjal, I can easily be around 4th or 5th place on damage meters, usually behind our mages and warlocks on trash. I usually pull 1000-1500 dps, sometimes more sometimes less, overall by the end of the night. I can understand in Hyjal why mages/locks are pulling on average 3000 dps due to the amount of mobs on each wave. On the single target Boss fights I seem to drop to 7th or 8th place, usually behind locks/mages/ and 1 or 2 of our rogues.
In Black Temple, it seems to be a similar story, but my trash and boss placements on the damage meters seems to be more constant, around 5th – 7th place, due to the lesser amount of mobs in each trash pull.
I have been assuming it was simply luck, the nature of the boss fight, or certain classes being more suited to specific boss fights.
Myself, and our rogues are with a Shaman on most raids, and sometimes a BM hunter or a feral druid, depending on how many rogues we bring. So I usually have optimum raid conditions for a fury warrior.
I am doing BT/WW rotation, using a Heroic Strike while BT/WW are on cooldown and keeping Rampage/Battle shout up constantly. I am using Flask of Relentless assault, +20 food, Adamantite stone on OH.
I have gotten mixed thoughts on whether or not to put the Adamantite weightstone on the OH even in a group with a shaman for WF, I can see the logic to doing so, but I want to make sure I’m correct in this.
I’m working on getting the badge crossbow to replace my serpent spine bow. I know the Choker of Enldess Nightmares, and the Shadowmoon Cloak are my biggest upgrades, until we get back into Sunwell.
I just wanted to get opinions on if I’m overlooking something that I should change/improve. I hear about fury warriors doing 2k dps, not sure how I can do much more different, but I’m open to any suggestions.
I don't have any WWS, since our guild just hasn't kept up with running them.
Hard to see what you might be doing wrong, I have a bit worse gear than you and can normally pull off about 1200 dps on a meleefriendly fight without WF (with enhance shaman that rises to about 1400). It's quite impossible to say what your problem might be without looking at a WWS though. I would suggest that you log the fights yourself and look at local wws reports on your own performance (you used to be able to do that with the wws client at least). Try using one of the spreadsheets, input all of your gear and buffs and see what your theoretical max is (if you're within 70-100% of that I'd say you're doing alright).
Gearwise I can only think of one thing that could make a major difference. Get [Shard of Contempt], the Expertise rating on that trinket is way better than what Tsunami Talisman can give you. Are you getting all the buffs you should be getting? Is the mob debuffed properly (BF, CoR). You're completely correct in using stone on your OH, WF only applies to the MH.
Also, 2k+ dps is a fair bit easier to get once fights start getting shorter, since you will spend a larger percentage of time buffed by temporary buffs (e.g. Bloodlust/heroism). Not that I've ever been close to 2k, but it seems that most fury warriors that do, reach that in fights that last shorter than attempts or first couple of kills of a boss.
Are you using heroic strike everytime your rage gets above 50-60? The only trick as a fury war is to never let your demo/rampage cd to collide and to always have enough rage for bt/ww while spending all additional rage on heroic strike. And as a tip, unless you are using a OT with 5/5 imp demo to keep it up on bosses, you should specc out of UW and get imp demo. In bt this allows you to use CoR on all bosses without getting too much damage on the tank.
@Dreven16
1. Gruntle is right Shard of Contempt will help alot.
2. Gruntle is also right about shorter fights being higher dps. For example Shade of Akama I can hit 2500dps and Teron Gorefiend I can hit 2000dps. With a perfect group setup Enh Shammy, BM Hunter, Feral, Warrior(me), Rogue and we have a Blood Frenzy warrior in another group. But I usually need to hit Recklessness when i'm in Execute range.
3. Haste potions are your best friend on boss fights. I pop my Haste Potion and Bloodlust Brooch 15 seconds in, after I get Rampage up and the tank has aggro. If its a long boss fight I will do that again as soon as both are up, if I only have time for 2 haste pots I will save the 2nd one for execute range. Execute + Reclessness + Haste pot is crazy dps.
4. Yes you should always use some type of sharpening/weight stone on your OH weapon.
I really appreciate your answers, alot of what you guys said was good confirmation to what I was thinking and some good points on how to improve.
I'll work on getting WWS to run for my personal use. I have been using Recount, but I haven't known a way to export that info for people to look at. I'll try to run it tonight since BT reset, and that should be a good representation of typical raids.
I usually use Heroic Strike while BT/WW are on cooldown, and I've been trying to monitor when I stop using it so I have enough rage for BT/WW, sometimes I get overzealous on fights that I'm unfamiliar with and paying attention to them more closely than other fights, like some of the sunwell bosses since they are new fights.
I do not usually use haste pots...Honestly I forget about them, I'll make more of an effort to use them.
I finally got my heroic Magister's Terrace attunement done. I had never been able to get into a group doing normal MgT until last night. I took a break from WoW when MgT first came out so I was behind the curve. I'm gonna try to get into a Heroic MgT today before our raid to get the trinket.
Should I use Tsunami Talisman with Shard of Contempt, or Madness of the Betrayer with Shard? I get an overall dps increase using Tsunami Talisman/Shard over Madness/Shard, but the 10 more hit and the AP of Madness seems too valuable. On the flipside the crit from the Tsunami Talisman is a pretty decent increase in crit (1.72% increase)
As for the buffs in raids, I'm usually in with a shaman for WF/SoE totems. I very seldom get drums, unless someone is using them and I am not aware of it. I think our locks never use CoR, since we just started bringing a DPS warrior, so there was never a way to counteract it.
Dreven, from what I see your gear really is fine to do what you want.
You should be getting better numbers with MOTB/Shard over Tsunami/Shard with 980 passive ArP. What is telling you to go with Tsunami?
Basically CoR is a huge increase, even without the -AP debuff from an owl or warrior.
to hit 2k+ on a single target boss with 100% dps uptime you need at least:
CoR/Faeriefire/Sunders
Enh Shaman
Haste pot every CD
Always pop recklessness with your heroism regardless if it is during execute range. Unless talented and with 2t6 Execute spam doesnt really significantly at high stat levels. However, your shaman should pop it at 19% or 40 seconds before the boss dies whatever comes first. The cooldowns really close the gap.
Suggestions for rotation:
First skill is always battleshout. Use bloodrage right before the pull.
Whirlwind if you have not crit. This gives you more chance to get that initial crit and flurry right off the bat.
Otherwise BT.
Use the 6/9 BT/WW and make sure you spam the button to get that perfect rotation and don't miss a beat.
Keep your rage above 55 when your cooldowns start to co-inside. Dont worry, you can spend it using heroic strike as fast as you make it. this will ensure that you always have enough rage to hit BT, WW, and Ramp in succession if need be. That's 75 rage spanned across a 3 second period. You should always be able to make up that 20 rage difference over that 3 second period. Or, make up your own preferential system.
Always pop recklessness with your heroism regardless if it is during execute range. Unless talented and with 2t6 Execute spam doesnt really significantly at high stat levels. However, your shaman should pop it at 19% or 40 seconds before the boss dies whatever comes first. The cooldowns really close the gap.
Thanks for this info Landsould I knew it was best to stack your cool downs, but I always tried to save Recklessness for Execute range. This week I will try to use it with Heroism.
In my current gear I'm around 200 hit rating using the standard 17/44 fury build. Is there ever a point where its worth dropping points in precision for say imp execute or another talent? Or is the increase in white dps better then what another talent can offer.
Is there ever a point where its worth dropping points in precision for say imp execute or another talent?
Not really. When I was a little less experienced I did take points out of prec and put into execute. I believed that the inc during execute phase outweighed the heavily insuperior fury warrior stat. Now I hit execute less and less because my BT and WW are more efficient in my own faith, so precision became more desirable.
Hit rating is always meh as long as you have enough crit, expertise, and oomph behind your swings to generate the rage you need to fuel your heroic strike spamming.
Here is my WWS for you guys to look at, and give any feedback.
I died too early on Supremeus, gg to me for standing too close when he changed targets. I might have been higher overall, but looking at each individual boss fight, I am happy with some boss fights, unhappy with others. I welcome any critiques on things.
I still haven't gotten the Shard to drop in Heroic MgT.
I did make a more conscious effort to time my rotations better and working in my GCDs when possible. I seem to have alot lower overall dps than other nights. I know I was experiencing some lag, but I won't blame it on that. I am usually a kicker/pummel on RoS, so my dps will be lower than if I was actively dps'ing, I just auto swing to keep rage up for pummel.
Hi, again i have a question related to maximize dps. Since i always want to get out the maximum of it and see other "highend" equipped warriors which do lots more.
When i take a look at the wwsscoreboard i see furies doing 2.8k dps. Here is a little log from Brutallus last week.
Again, dont get me wrong, but compared to the gear im feeling a little unsatisfied and think there is more available when i see others. I feel i owe my guild like ~2500dps on brutallus since i have the glaiveset.
I am running pretty normal rotations and have a good support in the meleegroup (Beasthunter, Retripaladin, Rogue, Meleeshaman sometimes a 2h Warrior)
Maybe anyone can point out small things which differ. Maybe you guys take different gems or whatever.
I am wondering - right now I am wasting stat points because I'm wearing the "Shard of Contempt" which (combined with Talent and Human Racial) gets my expertise to theoretically 24 for MH / OH. Thus wasting 4 points effectively.
Now I'm due to get the onslaught belt which will give me enough expertise to reach 19.6 (MH/OH), allowing me to switch to Madness of the Betrayer or Berserker's Call.
I'm not sure whether the game counts this as 0.25% dodge chance for bosses or actually takes the 0.6 additonal expertise into account - I'm pretty sure the benefits of the other trinkets would outweigh a measly 0.11 % dodge chance.
I'm not so sure however, whether they outweigh 0.25% ...
Any thoughts on this by Orcs/Humans who actually wear the Onslaught Belt?
Expertise cap for dodges is higher than 6%, so your 24 expertise is not wasted at all. Check the dps warrior compendium thread for accurate numbers. The exact dodge chance has not been determined but it's definitely higher than 6%, probably something like 6.2 or 6.4.
Also, as far as I know Expertise (like weapon skill was once) is rounded down, thus 19.6 means that you have exactly 4.75% anti-dodge.
The cap is no less than 6.2 and no greater than 6.25. Worst case scenario your attacks will be dodged one out of every 400 strikes. If I were you I would use the 2 points in weapon mastery and put them into improved execute? /shrug.. Definately keep the shard though. Belt/shard is hard to beat.
@cainor: Seems almost fine to me. Only thing that wonders me is your high autoswing percentage of damage. Over 43% is a little high, atleast seems to me like you're maybe wasting some rage that you should transform into more HS's to lower your white damage to below 40% of overall damage. Most WWS I've seen from fury warriors, the white damage percentage was below 40%.
@cainor: Seems almost fine to me. Only thing that wonders me is your high autoswing percentage of damage. Over 43% is a little high, atleast seems to me like you're maybe wasting some rage that you should transform into more HS's to lower your white damage to below 40% of overall damage. Most WWS I've seen from fury warriors, the white damage percentage was below 40%.
Thanks for your answer,
I thought the same. The problem ist that up to 80% Health of Brutalus I am as good as threatcapped. So i can put in just a few Heroic Strikes.
What do you think of re-gemming all possible to Strengthgems? So get a little less crit, therefore higher average hits and less aggro?
The cap is no less than 6.2 and no greater than 6.25. Worst case scenario your attacks will be dodged one out of every 400 strikes. If I were you I would use the 2 points in weapon mastery and put them into improved execute? /shrug.. Definately keep the shard though. Belt/shard is hard to beat.
Actually, your spreadsheet shows a 2 dps loss on Brutallus if I switch to MotB ... wouldn't have expected that. Also, it gives me a number of ~ 2500 dps. I'm nowhere near that. (2000 I can manage). Is my rotation that messed up or is something wrong with the spreadsheet here? I rechecked: my exact gear, my exact buffs and Brutallus is debuffed as he usually is ...
I've got a question according Brutallus, first my overall DPS there lies about 2600-2700 without any Glaives or so with the following group: BM Hunter, Enhancer, Feral Druid, we are getting one Heroism around 50% or so. Furthermore we have 3 Drums and Bruta has CoR, FF, Expose Weakness and Blood Frenzy. During this time i always pop recklesness with an Insane Strength Potion but only last 2 weeks, i am just not sure about the amount of extra damage which lies between insane strength or haste potion so if there is somebody who can help me with some numbers, tell me
Third:
@Landsoul in 1.19 in your spreadsheat s4 chest was a little worse with my setup in comparism to my mh chest, now in 1.20 it is slightly better, around 7 dps i think. did u change anything according calculation of hit / ArP / crit?
He's got good gear, so I doubt it would be hard for him to get that high with all the stacking, heroisms, etc. I cant correct any errors unless you link your setup using the current build of the spreadsheet, which I did update a few days ago. Send me a PM.
07/23/08, 10:00 PM
