Ok sorry, General raid build

G1 MT1 MT2 FeralDruid Paladin Aff Lock
G2 Priest1 Priest2 Pal Pal RestoDruid
G3 SP1 SP2 Mag Mag Mag
G4 Rsham SP3 Lock Lock Hunter
G5 DPSwar Rog Rog Rog Enhsham

Edit : I realise there is an easy answer, (ie BF becomes superior when 4% of raid physical dps is superior to your dps loss). But however i have a hard time finding out the diff between top arms warriors and top fury (saw some 2k dps vids on warrior favored fights so i guess on those fury >> BF)

Edit2 : Seems lot of the stuff is being discussed around page 9 for pure theory, just need the "practical" input in hyjal and BT from people who tested both there :p

After reading all this, it does seem possible (especially with haste gear) for imp slam DPS to be high enough that when you add BF to certain raid makeups it becomes better than fury, but it's probably going to remain situational. For most warriors and the gear they have access to, and for most balanced (i.e. non-melee heavy) raids I feel safe saying that fury is superior.

Also, as was pointed out, the haste gear does not seem to favor 2h stats, since it tends to have +hit.

In the fury vs arms debate....

I've been having a hell of a time justifying fury in the last week or 2. The players;

ME

HIM

Damage wise i'm coming out about 5-8% ahead of him on most fights....and his spec is somewhat retarded when it comes to PvE dps...no imp slam, no flurry.

He's got me beat by like 3400 hp, and is crit immune through resilience, so if he pulls agro he can usually survive it...unlike me.

Starting to wonder if there's even a point to fury, when i can just go MS and PvP well.

We are 2/6 SSC, 1/4 TK, with Mag down...I've got every piece of gear possible DPS wise except the boots off of Tidewalker, and helm off of VR, which haven't dropped. Getting the gladiator main-hand next week.

Edit; Came across a lot whinier then i wanted....had an annoying night in TK last night with 3 wipes on VR because healers couldn't keep the MT up...and having the other DPS warrior tank him for like a few % after i got 1 shotted for 19k crit. He continues to insist that he can tank with no problem in that gear, and frequently tanks heroics in it....he also is making no attempt to get "traditional" tanking gear in any way, shape or form.

I am kind of in the same boat Calgar.

I recently switched to Fury from Prot. Our MT spot is well-covered and after being Prot for my entire PVE career I was just sick of being an offtank. I had been going Arms for 1 day a week to Arena, but decided on Fury because I thought it was the best PVE DPS build and frankly dual wield is a little more 'fun' than 2h, maybe just because it was new to me.

My gear was decent to start with, at least coming from Prot, but it was very PVP heavy stuff and still is to a certain extent. My Chest, Offhand, Legs, Shoulders, Feet and Ranged are all Arena rewards. Check my profile if you are curious, I know I still have a ways to go with gear but I am getting there. We have SSC cleared and are working on Kael'thas.

My DPS is ok. I can pretty much never beat our best Rogue. I can sometimes beat the other two, but it really depends on the fight. Generally I am behind at least one of them, but competitive with them. I did top the charts at our last Kazzak, and consistently finish top 3 at Magtheridon, but that was all Recklessness. I dont have an Arms Warrior to bench myself against lately, but I feel like Arms is probably the way to go for Blood Frenzy alone. I am sure my personal DPS would suffer some but the raid DPS would almost certainly overcome that gap.

On Morogrim last night I got my weapon speeds down to 1.03/0.57 speed. The haste buffs I had were flurry, mongoose proc, heroism, dragonstrike proc, and a haste potion. My weapons are Dragonstrike (2.7 spd) and Merciless Gladitor's Quickblade (1.5 spd). My guild is 5/6 bosses down in SSC. Also 1/4 bosses down in TK. So I have no haste gear. I was wondering what is the fastest some of you BT/Hyjal geared warriors can get their weapons to.

Also I was wondering is it possible to make a macro to pop deathwish, haste potion, and my trinket(also maybe recklessness) all at the same time so it only uses one GCD.

The best you can do is make a macro that you have to press for each GCD that you need to use. Ie: once for deathwish, potion, and recklessness. Trinkets don't pop the GCD so you can link your trinket and 1 other thing at the same time. Otherwise you have to either push the same button multiple times, or mulitple buttons once.

@Calgar, Hozz

Depending on your raid-setup having Blood Frenzy can be a viable adition.

To be viable the rest raid has to have 25 times as much physical DPS as you are losing personally.

So if you lose, say, 100 DPS personally, your raid needs to have 2500 physical DPS total(Rogues, Hunters, Enh. Shaman, Feral Druids, Ret. Palas(not all DPS physical), other Fury Warriors and your MTs) for the respec to be viable.

As there is no spreadsheet for 2-hand, you have to be going by your own observations of course.

Additional advantages are:
# less threat for you
# more threat for the MT(s)
# PvP viability

Disadvantages are:
# less ego boost
# no effect on bleed immune bosses

I've been dpsing as a 2h in my raids and there are definitely aggro problems with 2h as well. I usually can pull aggro pretty much 60% into the battle if i felt like but i usually tend try to law low if i get a string of monster crits. I've been noticeing spikeing wf procs and crits which isn't all to bad but do mass damage in a short amt of time causing some aggro spikes. I'm gonna admit that being on top of damage meters is pretty hard for me to obtain but I still do about the same percent as everyone else in encounters that is melee friendly. My gear is still kind of lacking in some areas but still gonna be trying to be viable in raids.

So, I've been looking thru this thread, fairly quickly admittedly, and at other threads, and I still have a question:

Does anyone reliably know how much rage is generated per damage done?

I've been doing some math and the rage from my average swing (Deep thunder, about 1900 self buffed AP, average hit on a mob being roughly 550-700 damage after armor). In game i get about 15 rage a swing. According to the WowWiki formula i should be getting 24-28. I know not to rely on wowwiki, but I'd like to know if anyone has actually figured out a way to calculate your rage gen based on damage. I've been trying to write a warrior dps simulator, mainly because I'm bored at work, and I know my gen rage is wrong.

WWS of our Shade kill from tonight: Shade WWS (Click Here)

I'm 31/30 Arms PvP spec. I did almost as good as svag.. and I only use 1 weapon! :P

I believe the wowwiki formula to be accurate, as it is taken from a blue post and I dont remember any rage mechanic changes since that post. When I use that formula it comes out pretty close to in-game observation. Also check your math, when I use your numbers you should be getting close to 15 rage per swing with Deep Thunder hitting for 700.

Akama, not Aran.

Oh god, sorry D:

Hi everyone;

I have a question about 2 items comparaison.
Fel-Steel Warhelm against Furious Gizmatic Goggles

it's approximatively (i don't care about stamina) 13 hit rating + 2 crit rating againt 6 streng + Thundering Skyfire Diamond

OR 13 hit rating + 2 crit rating againt 6 streng + 24ap

my stats (approx) : 1700ap (zerg) 150 HR 31% crit (zerg)

Instinctively I would say that the googles are better.

what would you do ? I'm sorry to bother you with that but i can't use the spreadsheet since i don't have excel (nor oppen office)

I've been reading this thread for a long time, I hate to ask a question without large logs, but I don't have links to our WWS atm. I'm hoping that I'm just missing some blatant hole of logic in the following.

My GF plays our teams fury warrior. Her and I spend a lot of time working through theorycraft to find the best gear for her. She had been wielding:

MH: Fel edged Battle axe.
OH: Malkazeen

Both weapons have decent dps, good stats and both with mongoose(I know there are arguments here that she should have potency on at least one of those. I disagree, but thats not what I'm meaning to talk about here).

Recently she picked up the offhand merciless gladiator sword. Strapped mongoose on it and has been raiding switching either the axe or malkazeen into the MH.

However, since she picked up the sword she has seen a significant drop in her general dps, and in her WF procs specifically. Is this probably just a string of bad luck? Or is there something in the stats or speed of the weapons that I'm missing here?

We want to work more in raids to test it, but she feels bad about bringing down the teams dps on new content this weekend. We put everything into the spreadsheet, but it doesnt seem to be working atm, at least the one we dl'd which seemed like the latest version.


The Armory

Depends....dual wield or 2-hander....If you are dual wield, then you need that extra hit if you are only at 150.

For a 2 hander go for the other stats IMO.

EDIT: @ Lambach, she needs a slow main-hand IMO. Whirlwind and hamstring spam to proc WF makes up a large portion of our DPS. If she was using mal main-hand, i'd expect her to lose ~45 damage per whirlwind (~5 dps worth) and an equal amount of DPS on each spamstring proc.

She should have saved up for the Gladiator main-hand and off-handed mal IMO

Edit2: just checked her armory....her AP is abysmal for fury, especially connsidering the caliber of her gear. I'd suggest dropping 20 hit rating for as much str/AP you can get.

-Putting potency on the off-hand.
-I'd suggest the choker of vile intent badge reward neck. Minor loss in hit for a HUGE gain in AP, stamina AND crit.
-Switch the helm gem to str/crit, agility isn't a great stat for warriors in general and she's not hurting for hit.
-The meta i don't particularly like...more a fan of 12agi/3% crit damage myself.
-15 str on the gloves 1% more white damage with haste, or 30 more AP affecting both yellow AND white damage...also makes WF hits bigger.
-Get rid of bladefist's breadth for either a bloodlust brooch or hourglass IMO.

Ok, then i'm misreading it. Any chance I can get your to put parenthesis in there so I can try to understand it?

Ok, I see one of my mistakes, thank you, but the part i'm confused about is: Should it be (dam/conversion)*(7.5+(Speed*Factor))/2 or ((7.5*dam/conversion)+(Speed*factor))/2 or ((dam/(conv*7.5))+(speed*factor))/2?

Ok, I see one of my mistakes, thank you, but the part i'm confused about is: Should it be (dam/conversion)*(7.5+(Speed*Factor)/2 or ((7.5*dam/conversion)+(Speed*factor))/2 or ((dam/(conv*7.5))+(speed*factor))/2?[/quote]

The idea is that the rage from damage you do is averaged with a constant based on weapon speed. So

( ((Damage/Conversion)*7.5) + (Speed*Factor) ) /2 = Rage

So with your example of Deep Thunder at 3.8 speed hitting for 700.

( ((700/274.7)*7.5) + (3.8*3.5) ) /2 = ~16.2 Rage

Yea the fight is tailored more for a 2h to WW / cleave adds but your rogues did very little damage from BF and you did most of your damage from WW and cleave which means you werent hitting the same targets.

The damage lilgokey did is great but its not a fair comparison to svags unless we can see a video. I say this because im only interested in the comparisons from fury to arms dps, you can do more dps through your aoe abilities but im guessing your dps went down greatly once it was back to single targets.

There are too many factors to consider when trying to compare two handed AE to DW. By default two handed weapons do more damage than a one hander, but AP tends to equalize it somewhat. You also have to factor in the amount of Cleaves you can do with either weapon within a specific amount of time, whether or not you have enough rage to continually use them on every new weapon swing, Flurry, Windfury, Sweeping Strikes, etc. What happens when all of the multiple target opportunities are gone and it's back to single target?

Actually, I don't have Blood Frenzy (another warrior in the raid does). And yes, I was attacking other adds. My DPS was about 2000-2200 all during the add phase, and it dropped to about 1700 as Akama died (trailing the older, much higher DPS). My single target averaged DPS on most fights does not exceed 1300 usually. One thing you have to keep in mind though is that I'm PvP spec. I could easily switch around a few points, put a druid on dps duty (he was tanking adds and out of range to buff me), get a BM hunter, have a rogue expose my target, and have a warlock put Curse of Recklessness on all of them. What you see there was me Cleaving and WWing 2-3 mobs with 0 outside debuffs on them.

I wasn't trying to imply that Arms is better than Fury. I believe that Fury is superior in most aspects. The one area Arms is going to exceed Fury's capability is multi-target DPS. I suspect that if I can better improve my target selection and get a bunch of debuff bitches; I can easily sustain 3000 DPS, and burst to around 4000. Sadly, this is going to be limited to this fight alone, but it's fun nonetheless!

Also, I can't really run FRAPS because my computer is really old (I won it at a tournament in 2003). I'm lucky to sustain 20 FPS on most raid encounters. Killing my FPS probably would kill my DPS as well.

Straight forward as of now, what is the best for raid dps 31/30 or a DW fury build??

Recently my guild got into a heated debate and I'm hoping you guys can help us out.


Thanks for your time.