This is the misinformation that spreads like wildfire, so everyone just assumes that since "DnT" doesn't take a Fury Warrior that BF is superior. Schmity even posted in the official forums that "I tried out Fury for one night and it's garbage". An opinion like that is not evidence of anything.

Both Curse and Aurora use Fury Warriors, and I'd consider both of them "top guilds". Look at how many guilds don't bring a single Enhancement Shaman...ever.

BF is no doubt good, but to just outright claim it's "always" superior is baseless. It depends mostly on how much physical damage your raids deal as well as how much of a problem you have with threat.

You'd think that after many pages without a clear conclusion, people could agree that it's mostly a preference and setup thing. Aside from Mortal Strike for PvP, there is no clear benefit one has over the other when you look at raid performance. Personally I prefer 33/28 because it's far less "bleeding edge" for threat generation, and also more straightforward to gear. I've always loved DW Fury, but shortly before the new arena season started I specced 33/28 mostly to farm myself some new 1-handers to raid with. The irony! Long story short, it's grown on me and I'll be sticking to it for a while to come.

By the way, about Slam rotation... when I have excess rage and MS/WW on cooldown, I tend to slamspam a bit until a cooldown gets ready or my rage below about 50. I keep hearing back to back slams are bad, but I generally hit for about as much as I do DPS with Slam alone, noncrit, every second. Considering crits, and WF/Sword procs, that doesn't strike me as bad in any way. Rage generation may suffer somewhat if I get unlucky afterwards, but misses are out of the picture, dodge lets me Overpower, and otherwise I'll at least get enough to Slam again. MS will generally be on cooldown then, anyway. Careless slam spam bad, cautious slam spam good?

Been researching some for my warrior and came across this thread. Hoping to get a concise answer to some Fury/DPS questions. I was DW Fury all before the expansion and had top-notch gear, spec'd prot to help the guild through its initial raiding forays in BC (my tanking gear is Kara-Gruul level) and am stepping back into the DPS. However, I have not been part of the DPS game for a while and it looks like some of the rules of the game have changed, especially regarding builds.

You can checkout my armory profile here: The Armory

My short-term plan is to farm the Hourglass of the Unraveller, craft the Tier 1 mace and upgrade it to Tier 2, get the cobrahide for the legs, and enchant both weapons with Mongoose, probably keeping the Emerald Ripper in the OH. I also have a Gorehowl in the bank.

Given that information, what DPS build would give the raid the best dps/benefit. We don't currently have a raiding Arms warrior. I'd love to stick with DW, but if MS with Gorehowl is the way to go short term, I'm okay with it. I've also heard our rogues talking about haste like its the best thing since sliced bread and looking at the Swiftsteel craftables and trinkets etc. it does seem like an awesome stat.

Thanks.

the way i see it, BT/Hyjal loot seem to suit DW fury builds better because of haste. with flurry, you are already pushing the ideal attack speed cap for slam rotations. with bloodlust, drums, and mongoose, haste seems almost worthless.

not only is haste the issue with MS builds, it's the abundant amount of str/ap in highend that favor BT builds more than MS (Cataclysm's Edge, Legguards of Endless Rage, etc). crit isn't seen as much because haste seem to replace it in endgame gear. crit is one of the, if not, best stats for MS warriors.

if we go the haste route with MS builds, we'd have to change the rotation by removing either MS/WW/HS or Slam from the cycle. removing slam takes away what ms warriors gained from tbc and removing ms/ww/hs will mostly be effective if you slam spam and still manage to get attack swings inbetween the GCDs. that would happen at about 1.0 speed i think, which will probably not be possible with current itemization unless you throw in the once in a while buffs (bloodlust, trophy, drums, etc)

i guess the fate of the dps warriors will lie on how itemization goes after BT/Hyjal. speaking of itemization, the threat-reducing trinket from vashj got a stealth buff and reduces a lot more threat from crits, almost making crits feel like normal attacks for the most part. that can help out the threat issues fury warriors have in threat capped encounters.

i know that you can always pick up other pieces instead of haste gear as MS but that puts a lot of restrictions on your itemization and will restrict your total dps as well. current itemization favors fury warriors so i'm sticking with it for now.

Thanks for the response. It pretty much confirms what i thought.
The reduced rage will also lower his damage a bit then, but still compared to the overall raid bonus it should be very marginal.

Flurry gives extra hits = extra rage.
But, the extra damage from 'Blood Frenzy' should also produce extra rage, correct?
The only exception would be fights where the boss is immune to bleed. (Void Reaver)

How much rage to you generate for doing an additional 30 - 60 damage?

Hello,
I'm wondering if anyone is using Rod of the Sun King and whats the ppm? I don't know if I should go for this(proc) or something with stats(al'ar MH fist..). Oh...and we are on kael ATM, so no BT stuff etc avalible.
Any ideas?

I heard the PPM on the rod is like 6 PPM or something crazy like that.

I picked up my season 2 arena main-hand axe last night and got it mongoosed up. I think the best weapons around pre-kael and Hyjal/BT are the arena S2 weapons sadly.....PvP for PvE gear...booooo.

Managed third on Gruul, 8th on VR (Stupid fight...threat capped and got squished @ 18%), and first on lurker last night.

Same thing happened to me, I think I'll stay 33/28 at least untill my guild starts clearing TK/SSC. I find working slams into my rotations a lot more interesting than keeping rampage up.

Won't high AP help slam a lot since it's not normalised?

This should help:

Floe - WWS

9 times over 6:12. Doesn't really seem like the proc does much at all.

At what attack power point can a 2h MS dps warrior switch to the George 2h BT dps build?

The Armory

Not anywhere near George but I can hit just under 2100 with imp Zerker rage before a battle shout. I went with a 20-41 build (Impale and 3 in 2hand specialization) yesterday as we already have a 33-28 warrior.

I'm still checking the numbers from that raid vs a 31-30 build I tried last night. First impressions were that it did indeed hit harder but with the loss of Axe spec, I did feel the crit loss (37.1% in zerker unbuffed with Axe spec). Damage-wise, it was probably pretty close in the long run.

I think with about 30% battle stance crit and 2k attack power (before shout) and you can start to see a clear increase in white hits and Slams in a fury build. Will post some numbers once I finish going through the parses.

If anyone has any number-crunching done, it would be interesting to see their take compared with my first take on it.

I really don't think attack power is the deciding factor here, at least not in terms of gear progression. These days, with stat allocation being mostly uniform from greens through high level epics, attack power and weapon damage generally scale at roughly the same rate, so one won't substantially edge out the other (hence the reason why MS and Bloodthirst continue to be as comparable now as they were pre-TBC). If anything, it's your crit chance that you'd want to consider, if you're comparing an MS build that doesn't include Flurry.

Fury has always benefited more from raid buffs than MS, but again, that's independent of gear progression.

This is pretty easy. Let's take a combat table for a dw fury warrior attacking a boss from behind as an example:

Assuming you have 0% +hit ...
...25% Glancing
..5,6% Dodge
..0,0% Block
..0,0% Parry
27,6% Miss (8,6% base + 19% dw "penalty")
-------------
41,8% combined hit + crit

This is in fact also your crit cap, since +crit "overwrites" your normal hits. This means, that every point to crit after you reached the 41,8% in this example is useless, because it is simply kicked off the hit-table.

Now if you add +hit to your setup, you will see an increase in the critcap (1% +hit increases your critcap by 1%). Assuming you reach the base +hit (8,6%) wether you go for 2h or dw your critcap is over 50%. This is mostly enough for the standard warrior out there.

I need to find a trinket upgrade.

Im using Bladesfist Breadth and if you can believe this..Drake Fang

What's the best trinket to go for?

What stat do you need the most of? Dragonspine if you can get it; Hourglass and Abacus are also solid and easy to get. And DFT remains a top-notch trinket, even at 70.

not really. Experienced DPS warriors offer better advice than a list of trinkets. Im sorry was there a better place to ask this question?

I'd say do some BMs and get an hourglass.

Speaking of trinkets, I currently have Bladefist + hourglass and I'm wondering if I should swap hourglass for bloodlust brooch. The AP is really nice, but my crit % is only 26% in zerker so I'm not sure if it's be a good idea.

I use Bloodlust and DFT still. DFT is flat out amazing considering it came out of BWL...I actually still use Styleen's when I tank too. Crazy.

I want to eventually get DST and Solarian's Sapphire. Gruul sucks though and we have awful luck.

I'm currently running with the combination of "Dragonspine Trophy" and "Hourglass of the Unraveller", and it feels pretty good. Asap I will replace the Hourglass with the Tsunami Talisman.

Seen other warriors running around with "Romulo's Poison Vial" for its decent hitrating value, which is also a pretty nice trinket.

Since most of the mentioned trinkets are Raid-Drops, they are not really farmable. If you have no access to such instances, you may try a combination of the hourglass and some standard +hit or +crit trinkets with an "Increase AP by XXX on use"-effect trinkets.

Technically, yes. The DPS Warrior spreadsheet was a good thread for mechanics questions before people started asking them here. It's too late to turn that tide, though, and the original topic of this thread was "not my favorite" anyhow.

Call me crazy, but I think that posting in proper threads benefits the forum in the long run, as people come back and use features such as "search this topic" or searching post titles; then redundancy is avoided.

Then again, were searching an objective, you might have tacked your question on to DPS Warrior Theorycraft for trinkets wanted

I think the best combo pre-hyjal/BT is Dragonspine and Tsunami (or hourglass). Excellent balance of crit, hit, AP and haste IMO.

I'm currently using hourglass and bloodlust, but from the math i've seen DST DESTROYS all other trinkets in comparison. We had a tsunami drop on our first ever leo kill...we use a silent bid system and i bid what at the time a guild record high bid...only to see a rogue go all in and snag it offa me with an even larger bid. So in revenge, when he pulls agro offa me when tanking, i don't taunt it back until he is well and truly dead...hehe.

This is from a dual wield fury perspective though.