I've been running around as 31/30 after the patch to grind arena for a better of hand, and I respec so much that I never have any gold, so I've just been raiding with this build. I also am never lower than third, usually second and on some fights first. The only time I am never in the top three, barring death is on something like Tidewalker, where all of the melee remain on him while Warlocks and Mages take care of the murlocs. I don't particularly enjoy raiding with this build for many reasons, and cannot wait to spec back to my regular DW build, but just because you have not seen anyone do extremely well with a 2h build does not mean it doesn't happen.

Haven't seen a good feral druid then. My younger brother is our OT/DPS on single tank fights. I think he was fifth on gruul and sixth on magtheridon last week.

That's REALLY theorycrafted, whether it's correct or not. Looking through all the WWS and personal damage meters, the only time you see long term 1000+ dps is on occasions where we can cleave/whirlwind multiple mobs....like Illhoof or Hydross.

You also aren't factoring glances, and no offense, but 1100 auto-attack seems rather high. I don't know if you are theory crafting them without armor or something. I use a gorehowl for my AoE work, and even with 3000 AP buffed you are only looking at a top end of 1200ish pre-armor. So more likely around 1000 auto attacks.

In Theory, we can push thousands of threat per second, but it rarely works out like that. If flurry drops, chain glances, or dodges can leave you rage starved all of a sudden and really kill your DPS in a hurry.

I think a lot of us have biased opinions on what we have personally experienced. Eg. i rarely make top 5 dps, where as Graul is usally top 3. Is that because of gear difference? Skill difference between him and I? Or because the rest of my raids DPS is better then his?

I'm taking the 1100 number from my experience raid buffed hitting fully sundered mobs :o

If any of the normal attack you did was a glancing blow, you could be set back for the rage generation.

And how much dps or damage done exactly is "never lower than third?" Using placement on a damage meter without providing insight on your guild's overall dps isn't too useful.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It also depends a lot on your strats. I can say for 100% though, if you're top 3 in the Lurker Below, your guild's range is not so good.

Posting a SS of your DPS before 20% would be helpful to give an estimated sustained amount DPS I suppose. Damage divided by seconds and such? Mention whatever damage buffs you have, and use WoW Webstats, etc.

What exactly is the point of using Magtheridon as a gauge for DPS? You realize that people are constantly switching out for cube duty, pretty much ruining the fight's potential as a dps benchmark. You also don't consider how warlocks have to constantly watch for infernal drops, and the effect of target switching on SP's and Rogues which greatly lower their damage.

Yes I did, please read a persons post fully before replying. And I'm sorry, how exactly do Rogues have to switch targets more than I do? You seem to want to be turning this thread into "2h DPS is not competetive, only DW can do anything" because you just don't want to believe it for whatever reason.

Eh? I've always considered lurker a really melee friendly fight seeing as theyre the only class that doesn't have any downtime during the spout. It's usually one of the only fights our melee do well on.

Why would I not want to believe it considering I play a warrior? I don't believe it because I've seen the evidence first hand. I have yet to see a fight where a warrior who is using a 2hander, can significantly hold his weight, unless it's a funny aoe zerg type encounter like Phase 1 Nef.

I don't understand why you'd post such a poorly balanced encounter at all to use as proof of your cause. It does nothing at all but act as clutter.

And Lurker below is definitely a ranged fight after the patch. Melee are the only ones that get hit by whirl, and they're also threat capped. Ranged on the other hand have no worries at all in terms of threat, and the water does trivial damage meaning they lose maybe 5 seconds per a spout while melee are constantly worried about their hp/dying. Also, your MT can occasionally be knocked out of melee range (depends on your tanks positioning) meaning a mistake by your MT is a melee dps's death.

Shadow Priests especially are free to wreak havok on this boss because of their ability to go all out. A shadow priest with 1000+ shadow damage, raid buffed to the extreme is literally an aggro producing factory (1300+ TPS easily) that rips chunk out of lurker.

From the OP, which the topic has seemed to stray from quite a bit (myself partially to blame).

I think it's follow the lines of pre-xpac, DPS warriors doing whatever they can to maximize dps while minimizing agro as much as possible. I had Subtlety on a cape during the final days of pre-xpac and others I knew had the agro-reducing trinket from AQ40.

I still think Subtlety increases my DPS alot more than 12agi does. I hardly use my Fetish of the Sandreaver but I'd like to get my hands on a Prism of Inner Calm due to the passive threat reduction.

And I'm telling you a Warrior can be competetive with a 2h, because I've been doing it since the patch. I'm done debating it with you though. It's something you have never tried personally, or if you have, were not very efficient at it, so you are going to keep saying it doesn't exist.

Seriously, read what someone wrote before replying with the same rhetoric over and over again. You sound like a broken record.

Are you sure Fetish isn't better still? A 54 threat reduction on crits alone is just extremely small.

Competitive in what? Gruul and Mag? I'm sorry, but gruul stopped being an important encounter a long time ago. Have you ever bothered to think about how gear past gruul increases the other dps classes' dps? Or you still stuck on the idea that because YOU, just only YOU do decently in your guild's raid, which is far from game-breaking, that 2handers are viable?

I'm fairly sure that I will have a stormherald in the next few days. I can spec into 2handed fury or MS but i'm almost positive my dps will be lackluster simply because 2handers are outpaced by other dps classes due to class mechanics.

Next time you decide to post a screenshot, actually put in the dps and a WWS breakdown along with it so people can actually see how you stack up to other guild's dps. A case of you outgearing the hell out of your guild proves nothing in terms of viability.

When my guild does gruul, our top mage/lock/sp all do 1000+dps. They are all on the brink of pulling aggro no matter how hard they try to keep their threat down. How does that compare to your guild?

Not to say that gruul or mag are bad/good for testing, but then what IS a good way benchmark?

Are you counting Heroic Strike in the "going all out" calculation? None of our melee have issues on Gruul, but we use a Feral Druid as the Hurtful tank.

Ebonroc or Venoxis for testing DPS on 73 mobs.

(In reply to Machinator)

But both of them has fairly low armor since they're lvl60 from the scratch, right?

You are threat capped at Morogrim. At least thtas my impression as the tank.
Reason: periodic knock downs of the tank and the need to watch your mitigation (shield block) because you should not neglect his possible burst damage.

Our tank is doing fairly high tps on morogrim. He has an autoblocker and blocks 500-700 on average making it pretty easy to hold some solid aggro the whole fight. I usually help with an add sometimes too.

But on another note, when I'm dpsing gruul, I can easily outpace our druid who can only do about 700TPS. It's just how fury warriors work.

That's not just how Fury Warriors work. It's damn easy to hit the threat cap if you are spamming Heroic Strike. But with Blessing of Salvation and using less aggro intensive attacks you shouldn't be in such danger.