Keep your hit rating@ around 200, get a little bit more crit and then of course AP, if you wanna see what to shoot for, look me up on armory.

On our Archimonde kills i dont have Windfury too and i have >850 dps

200hit rating is enough ? cause i play with 249 and i find i still miss a lot. I agree my crit rate is too low but i lack gear. IS the max hitting anymore the goal with fury dw ?

In terms of current itemization, DST is huge for warriors in terms of DPS increase. (From the numbers i've seen thrown around something like 10-15%)

So that's doesn't really surprise me. Still, the shaman would account for almost a 50% increase in DPS over not having him. (Going from 850ish to 1300) But again, i'm not personally familiar with the fight, what buffs you have, if you are flasked...etc.

Is there something specific about that fight and windfury or are you saying DPS warriors need windfury all the time? I would think something is wrong if you can't do decent DPS without a totem.


And because it keeps coming up over and over, why 200 and not 250 or 150?

I dont have the math behind my statement, but I've tried all kinds of setups, 300 hit rating 250 hit rating 200 hit rating with ~100 ap differences between each, 200 hit and more ap gave me much better dps than 250 hit with 100 less ap or 300 hit with 200 less ap.

You dont 'NEED' windfury all the time, just that its VERY beneficial. Our last morogrim kill I did 1200 dps without windfury, so you can most definately pull >1000dps without it, just that if you do have it, youll likely be doing over 200 more dps.

@ the 200 thing. 200 hit is easy to get without focusing on, or gemming for it and it allows you to focus on AP/crit/stamina more.

It seems to be the break even point in itemization. 100 is bad, 200 is good, but 300 would be excellent. 300 though, would force you to give up a ton of other stats to get hit that high. You'd lose more then you'd gain in other words.

It's the same going the other way. It's hard to get your hit much lower then 200 once you are well geared in full T4/T5 gear.

As for windfury, we are a class balanced around assuming we will have it. We benefit double from it compared to other classes in that we get damage from the WF proc, and that damage gives us more rage to do MORE damage. No one's saying you can't do good damage without a WF totem, but you can't be competitive without it, and since i know someone will disagree with me on that point....this is assuming equal gear and skill. Beating up green-geared rogues is no accomplishment in full T6 caliber DPS gear, same with destroying a hunter that doesn't use his pet/steady shot rotation.

The point I'm making here is; If a DPS warrior doesn't have a WF totem, then you'd probably be better off taking another class for that spot, as they (being much less reliant on raid buffs) wouldn't suffer as much from the loss.

People say they get 1000 dps without a WF totem....and while 1000 DPS is good, they are probably tenth or less on the DPS meter, as the gear it takes to do that manner of dps WITHOUT the totem would mean everyone else is pumping out some MEAN dps too.

Example; that vash'j fight i was like 12-15th on in phase 1 i was pulling 900+ dps...which isn't terrible...but there were 12-15 people doing MORE then that. The attempts i have a WF totem I'm from 4-6 on the DPS meter, doing 1150-1200 dps.

On a related note, I am trying to make a case for including DPS Warriors (specifically MS spec) in our 25 man raid makeup and am having a hard time convincing our officers it is a worthwhile inclusion. Their rationale is that a rogue will do more damage and can more easily mitigate threat.

Does anyone know of a well written post that provides a reasonable point of view that supports the inclusion of DPS warriors in TK and SSC raids specifically?

Decent WWS reports do better than written rationales. There are plenty in this thread alone to justify a DPS warriors spot. Hell just improved Battle shout justifies at least 1.

Archimonde is not a good fight for DPS comparisons. Fires & Air bursts are dice rolls that will affect how much DPS time melee will have. I've gone from 1022 to 1316 DPS in sequential weeks with minor gear upgrades.

If you want to compare DPS on a single target you need to compare apples to apples. Teron Gorefiend is best, and to a lesser extend Tidewalker, Solarian, and Anetheron. Tidewalker may be threat limited, Solarian can be masked by AE damage, and you can be slept on Anetheron.

Well take this parse: Wow Web Stats

~57% of the damage done to gurtogg was physical, not counting my own. 57% of 5,600,000 is 3,192,000. The Blood Frenzy debuff on gurtogg constituted ~3.85% of that, adding ~122k to my damage which would raise my contribution above CR's, and that's not even counting the ~450ap I give to my group via battle shout. Also, those rogues both have DST's, which is really really huge right now and won't be quite so much after the patch. DPS warriors aren't so amazing that every guild without one needs to rush out and recruit one, but we certainly pull our weight and we bring some really important buffs/debuffs to the table. We also tank trash just fine while still fitting into boss fights better than prot paladins do for healing or feral druids do for DPS

I love Archimonde, its absolutely awesome for dps warriors, I always intercept back from airburst and there is very rarely a doomfire going through him so its easy for me to avoid it.
On our first kill i did ~200k more dmg than the next person :O
But I definately agree that Teron is a much better dps benchmark fight, Anetheron is great too but sleeps really suck This week I got slept twice and my dps went down to below 1600 that I normally pull on him.

I have been tombed on Tidewalker 3 times or more the last couple weeks. It really hurts my DPS showing when I lose 30seconds or a minute over the course of the fight to tomb/bandaging/not running in because the healers don't heal me above quake-death levels. All the while I have deep wounds ticking so my dps time keeps rolling. I posted 800 dps last week without a feral druid while dying to murlocs which aggroed me on a imp LoTP or PoMending proc. I hope to use it to accurately measure my DPS potential, but it's just not cooperating. I'm a chestpiece and probably some legs away from a solid DPS setup, but I'm already a trash clearing DPS allstar (no mana, after the first mob no aggro worries).

Im pulling 1222 DPS on Karathress without WF ( The 13 WF attacks are from just attacking fathom lord, not his adds).

My enhance shaman hardly ever gives me WF. So I still think its very possible for DPS warriors to be competitive DPS without WF. Sure it helps but its not neccesary. True Karathress is in my opinion a very friendly melee fight. But it shows what DPS warriors can do without WF.

Im still waiting for my DST to drop as well.

Karathress Kill :WWS Wow Web Stats
Armory The Armory

Armory doesn't seem to be updating, but my unbuffed stats are : 215 Hit, 30.91% crit and 1987 AP.

Well as a Warrior u normally dont get hit by the fire and can intercept when u get bursted. If you dont have 10 melees or sth and make 2 melee camps burst shouldnt hit you more than once every 30seconds, so generally you can stay all the time at archimonde.
€: Should read the next posts next time~~

normally we have at least 2-3 shamans. some have been on vacation and what not. Plus we are looking for a good enhancement shaman. that night, the one was needed elsewhere a littlee more.

yes, ww and bt were almost always on cooldown. the HS you see were probably more on the totems on kara.

I just wanted to make there wasn't something I was doing wrong. I will post some more wws from tonights raid tomorrow.

Dragonstrike will still be the best out of those weapons.

How about for the simple fact that you can buff AP up to ~464 with any of the raid DPS specs? We are still working on Kael, so I cannot make any accurate comments about fully BT geared Rogues and Warriors, but right now I do more damage than either of our Rogues for total raid DPS (not my rank on SWstats), because I generally do around 1-2% less personal DPS except on fights like Karathress and Kazzak (not that Kazzak really matters anymore).

Examples:

Wow Web Stats
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Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Also, how often is Feint actually even used anymore in a raid setting? Vanish sure, is obviously superior to death + Soul Stone/Rebirth, and they also do not have high threat attacks like Heroic Strike or Hamstring, and while yes threat sucks as a Warrior, it's manageable enough when you have good tanks.

Spitfire Totem hits...

We have the ranged kill the spitfire. If melee start attacking it, we first have to run there then back again. And even when the shaman and the hunter are stacked on top of each other. There is still running involved. Ranged lose virtually no DPS by switching and attacking the spitfire. Melee lose quite alot. That was also only our second kill and last week we only just made the enrage. So we were maximising DPS.

I'm trying to use the latest dps spreadsheet to compare Dragonstrike to Wicked Edge. I'm getting slightly more (<0.5%) dps from using the Wicked edge over Dragonstrike after the haste nerf. My guess is that this is easily within the error margins for the spreadsheet. In terms of theorycrafting it seems like the mace and axe are pretty even after the haste nerf. If you're an Orc you should probably go for the axe, while humans should go for the mace (the +5 weapon skill is godly for these races).

This version of the spreadsheet (http://elitistjerks.com/465290-post1637.html) does not have a working buff and talent section yet, but should have a correct treatment of WF after nerf. There might be errors in it so don't flame me if you get different results

edit: there's actually a new version of the spreadsheet up now, so go to the last page of that thread instead and use the latest version.

Whatever works for your raid. I just know that for us, the spitfire gets off more than one volley if the melee are not helping. And as a Warrior, there really is not a whole lot of running/DPS loss when you can simply Cleave and WW it. It hurts Rogues a lot more than Warriors. It's better for ranged to be doing it when all that's left is Karathress simply because melee get frozen so much, but when we are killing the Shaman, we have everyone focusing on it. Kill order might also have something to do with it. When we had our very first kill, we were killing the Hunter first, but then we changed it to the Shaman.

ww does not hit the totem... ^^
Cleave does though