First of all, you actually have the plate DPS items dropping... wich none other then a plate class can use. So gearing is rather easy.

Second, we do bring AP shout. If there is a melee group it adds a nice 400 something AP ( I use my solarian sapphire and it adds around 500 AP or so)

Third, on any "aoe" or "add" fight i pump out quite nice DPS i place higher then some locks in certain fights.

Judging by spreadsheets my DPS will up quite a bit too when i start racking up the items from hyjal / BT

And there is nothing saying i cant offtank with fury

5/5 imp demo is only better with CoR on the mob, without it you remove all a mob's removable AP with only 2/5. There's a thread about it here somehere.

Hmmm. I've DPSed as prot and it's not all that. I'd DW and spam WW/DevaxX. I kept up rage fairly well, but was gimped on AP and scaled poorly. At ~800 DPS, I was much higher in aggro than I would want to be. I guess the question becomes, does a fury warrior OT better than a Prot warrior DPSes. We just downed KT last night and got into Hijal, so I can't say too much about that, but I was tanking that trash in DPS gear with a shield on. In tank gear, my survivability is fine. You can just out gear that. My TPS is not very high in tank gear, but if I'm second kill or later in a pack, that's fine. In DPS gear, I can crank my TPS up to about 1200-1400 albeit with much less mitigation and hp. Then, if I break combat and switch gear, I can turn around and do 1200 DPS without too much effort. I think it comes down to it's better to bring good warriors than bad warriors.

I just got the [Rod of the Sun King]. I'm not super excited about it as I don't value the proc much at all, but the 2.7 speed, one hand, 100 dps aspect of it makes it very useful. The fact that it looks like a caster weapon is a little annoying. It makes my character look left handed (Talon of Azshara moving to the OH). It matches my weapon speeds at 2.7 so I'll see if I like that over the more even rage generation. My hit rating is a little low (175 ish) so I think my rage generation will be a little spiky. I do like me some big numbers though.

175ish hit rating is more then fine, I wouldn't worry about it that much.

All I have to say is, the changes to improved berserker stance are a godsend. Threat is still very much an issue for many of the T6 encounters, but I am very surprised that they would give fury a threat reducer. I can only hope this doesn't effect our class in a negative way in future expansions, giving us a scaling -aggro talent, when we improve so much with gear.

Heard from a few sources straight AP stacking for DW 17-44-0 warriors outscales any haste rating you can currently muster as equippable gear.


Any info behind this argument?

The problem with Haste is that it's only really slithly better than hit rating for warriors. They convert at roughly the same rate: 15.8ish rating per point. In a time period that would net 100 white swings, 1% haste equates to 1 more swing and 1% hit equates to 1 more hit. This is assuming you are above the yellow miss cap but below the total hit cap. The benefit of haste then is that you get, on average, more than 1 weapon damage per weapon swing. With glancing/crits weighted, I get about 1.11 weapon damage per swing. So, 10 haste is worth about 11 hit rating. One for one, I'd generally rather have ap/crit as they will enhance my yellow damage as well. Haste was much more valuable prenerf when a % was cheaper to achieve.

Right, but again it is going to depend on your "chance on hit" itemization. Haste and hit increase the proc rate of "chance on hit" items. Crit and AP do not.

Still, by definition, when you nerf one of the scaling stats, it will make sense to stack the ones that don't scale (AP/STR) to a greater degree.

This is because it will take a higher static AP to get the same per rating benefit out of post nerf haste.

The -10% threat is in addition to the already existing +10% AP if anyone was still worried
WoW-Europe.com Forums -> Wooot! Blizzard listened to the community ZOM

This reminded me of a Rage Winterchill kill a couple months ago. I was protection spec for tanking Illidan flames. I ended up with 954 DPS from pure HS/Melee/Execute damage. I didn't have Devastate which would have helped even more. Keep in mind I was equipped with respectable DW fury gear at the time.

Link for those curious: Natural - WWS

Protection DPS is certainly possible, albeit high threat as others have mentioned. With the proper gear you can skip a talent respec once and awhile on farm encounters.

Meh, short fights like that can be misleading. You probably did 35k+ damage of that during reckless and that's without stacking it with bloodlust. Curiously, it looks like you went and respecced immediately after Rage. You came back and posted almost 1500 DPS in the same gear in a very similar length fight. So respeccing may have increased your DPS by as much as 50+%.

Check the DPS spreadsheet thread. Alternatively, search for "rising tide" in this forum.


This question is starting to turn into one of those that gets asked far too often.

Let me just preface this post by saying, that I didn't see any really obvious threads when searching, so I'll just ask the question here and if its been posted elsewhere please redirect me.

Has anyone looked at the difference between arms and fury individual DPS and tried to figure out whether the 4% extra physical damage is worth the lower individual DPS?

On the debuff side of the equation, I imagine it would have a lot to do with the amount of melee DPS in the raid, but where would the cut off be? Just to go to an extreme if you had all melee/hunter DPS than surely 4% would be better than any difference in individual DPS. What if you run with 4 or 5 Melee and say 2 hunters?

That being said I think the harder side of the equation is getting even a somewhat reliable estimate of the average difference in individual DPS between a Fury warrior and an Arms warrior.

If anyone has any information or thoughts about either the benefit of the raid wide debuff or difference in arms versus fury DPS, I would really appreciate it.

I'm going to move this into the general dps warrior thread, but yes, assuming your blood frenzy warrior knows what he's doing the extra damage is more than a fury would contribute. Of course, if you have 2+ dps warriors in the raid you'll probably want the second to be fury, but a single arms warrior is better than a single fury warrior right now, all else being equal.

Also, this is assuming a 25man raid. in 10- or 5-man content fury single target dps is probably the best

You'd really have to look into this sort of thing on an individual basis. But, say you bring 3 rogues, 2 hunters, enh shaman, feral druid, and 2 prot warriors to a raid along with a fury warrior. For the sake of simplicity, we'll say all those classes but prot warriors do 1100 DPS, and the tanks do 300DPS. So 8 physical dps classes plus 2 tanks = 9400 physical DPS. 4% more = 376 DPS. So if the Arms warrior was able to pull off at least 726 individual DPS the raid DPS would be the same as if the fury warrior was there. At higher levels of gear it will scale even better.

1. Upload WWS with no Blood Frenzy
2. Add up the total average DPS (not instant DPS!) from all physical sources
3. Multiply by .04

If you already have a Warrior with BF, multiply the total average DPS by .9615 and subtract that value from the total average DPS.

This will give you a ballpark of the DPS that BF would provide your raid. Depending on how you stack your raid's DPS, it may or may not be worth it.

The thing is, bosses that don't bleed aren't terribly difficult anyway. Void Reaver and Supremus aren't exactly roadblocks for most guilds

as for multi-target dps, arms AE is stronger than fury in pretty much any circumstance

that said, the gulf between fury dps and arms dps + BF contribution isn't all that big. Having one warrior spec Blood Frenzy isn't going to revolutionize your DPS or anything

Hey all, this was probably answered before, but I don't exactly have the time to read through a thousand posts.

I was just wondering what a better Metagem would be for PvE DPS - the 24AP/movement increase gem, or the 12Agil + 3% crit damage gem?

12 Agi + 3% crit dmg.

Having read through a great number of informative and educational posts within this thread and others on this site there are a number of points which I have been unable to find answers for. These are mostly irrelevant for the vast number of your readers who appear to be in high end raid guilds but for the likes of myself who are just starting out on the Raid ladder I would appreciate it greatly if you could give me a little advice on some matters.

At the moment we are mid way through Karazhan (not much i know but we are putting in a great deal of effort to try and progress) and I am the lone raiding DPS warrior in the guild. Have spent a while in a half way house Arms spec for PvE and PvP use I decided that I would like to spec DW fury even though it is by far the hardest spec to gear up for early on.

I would like to know at which stage fury becomes effective? Reading the WoW forums people suggest aiming for around 15% hit with 27% crit and building up AP and haste rating once these targets have been achieved. I have reached 14.6% hit and 27.65% crit but I am finding that my DPS is output is substantially lower than I was achieving with my previous arms build (also sustantially lower than indicated by the DPS spreadsheet) despite using the advised "WW, BT weaving" cast rotation.

Would you delay speccing for DW until a minimum AP cap is achieved or am I missing something important? On our last Kara run I was averaging around 400dps on bosses when the spreadsheet indicated a maximum of 697.5dps was obtainable.

Thankyou in advance for your assistance.

The thing about BF, is you make a critical assumption that all of said classes are:
a.) DPSing consistently on the target
b.) Attacking the same single target
c.) Alive to begin with
So when you list all this cumultative dps- you neglect the real world factors which weigh heavily against it. Take for instance Vashj.
For P1, that BF will be optimally affected- but it is hardly needed in P1. Getting Vashj to 70% is an easy task for even guilds who are new to the encounter.
P2 that BF might affect 5 people.
P3 that BF is next to worthless during the 'make it or break it' moments where people are rooted, in/near toxin, running away with charge, or in transit to Vashj.
Solid DPS is needed at the end of fights in order to record a kill. When you are looking down the barrel at half of a raid being dead, you would quickly realize it's not what people bring to the raid for the benefit of others: it is the raw tanking/healing/cc/dps that you bring to the raid that is important, the rest is just icing. (2 arguable exceptions being Trees and Enh Shams)

That isn't an armory link, it's a curator kill shot. I can't see armory at work anyway, so...

Are you getting WF? If not, it sounds like you are doing fine, just keep working on more AP. Grab some arena gear if you haven't. The chest and legs, at least, will last a while.