Bliss

Almost all(All?) of those have been confirmed as new heroic badge loot. Most of them are pretty meh also, even fury doesn't want that much hit rating.

 

Heaton

I think the only time I'd ever use SS as fury would be on hyjal trash.

 

boysailor

i dunno if i dare doing that tbh. i can imagine the tanks having problems holding aggro on certain mobs (pack of abominations for instance?). and when a few of them starts punching you in the face... let's just say healers need to overheal a bit.

 

luke2kz71

I would much rather see items with crit on it. Those items seem like they are great for the guy that really doesn't realise hit isnt important after like 9%.





I have also seen some math that is saying with the right offhand, this is in fact a buff with the introduction of the double hitting WW. But untill you have good enough gear, its a nerf.

 

Brissa

Id love to see that math because for me (and other fury warriors I have checked on WWS, including people from the highest dps guilds in the world who you cant blame on being undergeared) whirlwind is an excedingly small portion of our dps (3-5%) and there is no way that it would couteract the nerf from Death Wish.

 

kyote

Hm, I can't find this phrase in the Test Patch Notes.

 

Ondskapt

With the expertise skill, would it be interesting to get Defiance in the protection tree, with Weapon mastery moved to the Fury tree ? That would give 10 (6+4) experise skill, reducing dodge's target to 2.5% (instead of 5%)

 

Grymm

I've spent the last week in Hyjal learning bosses that are fairly new to us. We're on #4 now but have switched over to BT for some early boss work. In SSC/TK on trash, I rarely get to cleave/ww. There are CCed mobs all over. I BT and HS. I use DW here and there. I do very well on trash dps. The only time I would cleave/ww or, post patch, SS, is on packs of un-CCable mobs (SSC pack 1, etc). On those packs, I'm in tank gear half the time because who carries 5/6 to farm content when bosses don't take that many tanks.

In Hijal, it's worse. Worse being subjective. I don't mind tanking. I'm in tank gear for 100% of the trash. Trash control for AOE dps is vital. So, the only time I'm in DPS gear is on the boss. I would never use SS.

For the bosses, then, they are 3-4 minute DPS zergs. I use deathwish twice on them meaning deathwish is up more than 25% of the time. The first time is just death wish. The second deathwish comes with execute/reckless/heroism. It would be tough to quantify the numbers but I would guess deathwish provides a ~7% dps increase, nearly twice what you would anticipate. SS provides a whopping 0% boss dps. The WW change should take my 5% WW and up it to 8%. So 7% loss for 3% gain.

 

Hozz

The Deathwish for Sweeping Strikes swap is a really, really bad deal for Fury. I mean, a terrible deal. Fire the GM that made that trade IMO!

Its clear they are trying to make Endless Rage more appealing, and they have...but this is very typical of them trying to fix something and then completely ignoring the unintended consequences. I understand its Test and the point is...to test. However, I feel like this is a change that anyone with any experience as a Warrior would have jumped on immediately.

If they are looking to swap a talent for Sweeping Strikes, it should be Enrage. Enrage is all about PVP and right now it next to useless where its at in Fury. Its only real effect is to make Flurry a 10 point talent instead of a 5 point talent.

 

dr_AllCOM3

Impale+Deep Wounds is still better, but you can be Fury/Prot now.

No, they haven't. They failed to move Slam in the Arms tree.

 

Healranktwo

Pardon me if this has already been asked. I tried to use the search option and looked through a couple of pages of this thread with no luck (60 pages is a lot to go through!).

With all these armor reduction gear added in 2.3, i'm wondering how an armor set consisting of full armor reduction gear would do? I'm thinking that most slots will use BT/Hyjal stuff, and the rest will be filled in with ZA/Heroic Badges (there are a lot of items that have AR from the badges that don't drop in the T6 instances).

Basically, how would you rank AR when you can stack it to absurb amounts?

 

• LodeRunner

As far as I know it's sort of a gray area, meaning unknown for certain. It depends on how much armor bosses have. The closer you approach bringing a Boss' armor to 0, the better. However, once you have reached 0 (if that's possible) armor penetration has no effect beyond that.

edit- more information can be found in this nifty thread
After reading it a bit the consensus seems to be that in regards to armor penetration: more is better.

 

• Fogbug

They really haven't, though. Flurry is still much more important to me than endless rage, especially since 3/5 flurry is pretty much 60% of the endless rage effect while also bumping my white damage way up

Improved slam is also vital PvE-wise. In the end I just don't need 25% more rage

 

Grymm

I rate armor penetration as roughly 1% damage increase per 150 armor penetration. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less, but with the numbers I was playing with, it seemed like a fair comparison.

It seems to me that DW is the skill that everyone wants and SS is the skill that nobody cares about. Give both trees DW and delete SS from the game.

The long and short is that improved disciplines, imp MS, and ER are crappy talents. Stealing from the Fury tree does not make them better talents. In essence, PVP warriors get more options and Fury warriors get less. I will accept the DW/SS switch if and only if they swap BF and Imp Slam. As it were, while carrying 5 points in enrage for no reason, I can't spec a decent fury build for DW with BF and still hold impale. Are they going to make SS a prereq on BT? The two skills don't even relate. I had stated in another thread or earlier in this thread that I would rather not have warriors revamped as everytime Bliz touches your class you have a 50/50 chance of coming out worse. And here you go. To be honest, if they axed the DW/SS swap and put some effort into filling out the arms tree with decent deep talents, I'd be happy with the other changes. The prot changes, threat reduction, and Weapon Mastery/Imp Intercept changes were all between fine and great.

 

Hozz

Well I agree with both of you, taking Endless Rage is not a foregone conclusion and perhaps never will be unless they directly improve the talent.

But, why else would they move Deathwish to Arms if not to trry and make ER more appealing? Are they trying to nerf Fury DPS? Maybe but then, why give it 10% threat reduction?

They need to move Enrage into Arms and put Deathwish back where it belongs. IMO.

 

Chirality

Sweeping strikes in the Fury tree doesn't even make sense to begin with. Will SS be changed to be usable only in Berserker instead of Battle stance?

Improved intercept in the Arms tree?

I guess I had just assumed that
Arms = Buffs Battle Stance abilities
Fury = Buffs Berserker Stance abilities
Protection = Buffs Defensive stance abilities.

I mean...if Improved Intercept is in the Arms tree, shouldn't Intercept be changed in the spellbook to Arms?

It makes no sense. lollore.

 

Chirality

My understanding was that, due to Rage Normalization taking weapon speed into account, Flurry did not actually increase your rage generation.

 

Bronwyn

Is my math off when I think that Deathwish (optimally used) will increase your dps by around 3-4%?

Now, the question is will we gain more than 3-4% from the new whirlwind? What about skilling 2/2 imp. WW? That might improve our dps significantly. Also: 10% less threat will mean more dps.

So are we looking at a nerf or at a buff? And how many worthwile uses for SS are there in a raid environment? (Right now I can only think of Kael'thas, Hyjal-Trash, maybe Akama ...)

Leaving out Rampage to get DW is not an option I reckon ...

 

Charsi

It's not about how much of a dps buff Death Wish is, it's about when it is a dps buff. Being immune to fear is nice too.

I dont see 33/28 changing all that much, i'll simply skip Sweeping Strikes. I really am rather ticked off about what it does to my Fury spec, though.

 

Colan

I believe they're changing it so that Sweeping strikes can be used in berserker stance as well as battle.

WoW Forums -> Sweeping strikes change

 

Tigs

This is a truly wonderful change. It's implications for PvP are enormous. I was already quite happy with the fact that we're getting 10 swings, but not having to burn rage/GCDs to swap is icing on the cake.

What are your plans to cope with the new Disarm change? With hunters getting a 10 second "Disarm Shot" and the dead zone being eliminated (along with Riposte, Disarm, etc.), it seems like it might be time to dust off the old weapon chain.

 

harmer

The DW/SS swap is not a wonderful change no matter how you look at it. Losing rampage to get death wish or vice versa is a nerf to single target boss dps. If you can cleave and sweeping strikes trash, great. Who gives a shit about trash dps.

 

Davia

What really needs to happen is that Death Wish needs to be made a base ability. Sweeping strikes can go back to arms, make up something stupid and relatively useless for 21 pt fury, doesn't really matter. The point is, DW is too good for any warrior doing DPS to not get. And paladins get AW from the trainer, so it's not without precedent.

The other thing that needs to happen is that Enrage needs to either be swapped in spots with Dual Wield Spec, or moved to arms. Slam should probably also migrate over to arms, but I'm not sure what you'd swap it with.

Edit: The more I think about this, the more it makes sense. Similar to how druids were with Innervate, and Mages were with IAE, if you want to do damage as a warrior, pve or pvp or whatever, you NEED Death Wish. It either needs to go to the 11 point spot occupied by PH or by AM, or it needs to be put on the trainer. Putting it on the trainer would have the added benefit of improving prot DPS when not tanking, something that pretty clearly needs to happen anyway.

 

• Mjollnir

While this might be true on paper, I remain unconvinced (no pun intended). I'd encourage you to spec with it, then without it. You will see a difference in how choppy rage generation becomes. If indeed it doesn't increase rage generation, it surely does smooth it.

 

Amorpheus

It's also a fear breaker which may be an argument for or against it. If Blizzard changed DW back to be a debuff (instead of a removable buff) taking 5% more damage for 30sec would be the tradeoff that's needed to make sure it's balanced. That actually sounds like a reasonable suggestion when you think about how other must-have skills have been moved to trainers.


How about the new sweeping strikes? Apparently they already thought it out enough to put it there, just give each tree the version made for it.

"You are better than I am," Inigo admitted.
"So it seems. But if that is true, then why are you smiling?"
"Because," Inigo answered, "I know something you don't know."
"And what is that?" asked the man in black.
"I'm not left-handed."