Future of a DPS Warrior - Page 70

Brissa · 10/19/07, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by mikebro

I'm almost positive that only the attack power portion of an attack is normalized and not the damage range on the weapon itself, so it is still beneficial to have a slower weapon for normalized attacks just not as good as it used to be.

Yes its the attack power that is normalized not the innate weapon damage.

peer · 10/19/07, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Charsi

My guess is that "trigger spell" you are seeing is for the off-hand Whirlwind attack.

Ah yeah, that'd make sense. Whew, I was worried there for a minute.

Zalein · 10/19/07, 11:58 AM

I'm very sorry, but I can't resist it!

Unleashed Gaming

On a serious note, the biggest problem for me regarding the slow off hand required for a better whirlwinds is that there simply isn't anything in SSC/TK. I have three rogues waiting for the elusive Talon from Morogrim so I can't get that for a while - I'm interested in knowing what the rest of the warriors around this gear level are thinking of getting. I'm now using the arena OH.

Alhena · 10/19/07, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Zalein

I'm very sorry, but I can't resist it!
On a serious note, the biggest problem for me regarding the slow off hand required for a better whirlwinds is that there simply isn't anything in SSC/TK. I have three rogues waiting for the elusive Talon from Morogrim so I can't get that for a while - I'm interested in knowing what the rest of the warriors around this gear level are thinking of getting. I'm now using the arena OH.

A couple of Karazhan MHs are turning into One-handers.

Aside from the Talon, the best options we'll have for slow OH in T5 content (assuming we're considering ZA as vaguely T5-esque) will be from Zul'Aman.

[Heartless]

[Fury]

My personal plan is to go after one of those ZA weapons, and OH my The Decapitator until then.

If all else fails, S2 arena weapons are nice and slow if you go for the "mainhand."

Gruntle · 10/19/07, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Zalein

I'm very sorry, but I can't resist it!

Unleashed Gaming

Sorry, was that supposed to be funny

,
maybe I didn't get the joke, but that talent tree suggestion is just completely crap.

edit: eh I'm slow today, nvm...

Brissa · 10/19/07, 1:48 PM

Originally Posted by Zalein

I'm very sorry, but I can't resist it!

Unleashed Gaming

On a serious note, the biggest problem for me regarding the slow off hand required for a better whirlwinds is that there simply isn't anything in SSC/TK. I have three rogues waiting for the elusive Talon from Morogrim so I can't get that for a while - I'm interested in knowing what the rest of the warriors around this gear level are thinking of getting. I'm now using the arena OH.

No need to fret, all you have to do is get an arena 1h weapon (the weapon thats intended to use in the mainhand) and put it in your offhand.

And better yet, S3 arena weapons put anything else to shame for offhand use.
Why wait for drops when there is free stuff to be had.

Calgar · 10/19/07, 1:55 PM

Actually, for season 3 they are releasing a specifically slow off-hand weapon, which i'm assuming is for shaman/warriors

S3 Slow off-hand

I'd also assume it's the cost of the fast off-hands, so we aren't stuck buy 2 weapons for 2600+ rating.

Now i just need to learn to PvP....and get my rating up so i can get the weapons.

Randor · 10/19/07, 2:31 PM

Originally Posted by Zalein

I'm very sorry, but I can't resist it!

Unleashed Gaming

On a serious note, the biggest problem for me regarding the slow off hand required for a better whirlwinds is that there simply isn't anything in SSC/TK.

[Netherbane]

Brissa · 10/19/07, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Calgar

Actually, for season 3 they are releasing a specifically slow off-hand weapon, which i'm assuming is for shaman/warriors

S3 Slow off-hand

I'd also assume it's the cost of the fast off-hands, so we aren't stuck buy 2 weapons for 2600+ rating.

Now i just need to learn to PvP....and get my rating up so i can get the weapons.

Oooh, thats nice. Will make it easier to get the rest of the PvE dps upgrades from the arena vendor earlier :>

gythawen · 10/19/07, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by telcontar

I'm interested in the implications of this Deathwish - Sweeping Strikes switch for Fury specs.

Since Rampage does not scale with gear (only with ranks obtained by levels), at some point, even assuming 100% uptime on Rampage, would not Deathwish come out on top as being a superior choice for damage?

Also, the activation feature of Deathwish allows for more control and the ability to gain the benefit during a vulnerable phase in a boss.

Here is what I am coming up with (this might be totally whack; I am using ingame tooltips for these calculations).

250 AP bonus from Rampage = flat 17.8 dps over the course of the fight. Over a 3 minute fight, this will give +3,204 damage.

20% bonus from Deathwish = During 3 minutes of a fight, :30 will be at 120% damage, and the other 2:30 will be at 100% damage. Assuming 1k dps (for simplicity), :30 of Deathwish will give 1.2k x 30 = 36k damage, or a 6,000 damage increase.

Looks like the inflection point is well under 1k dps. Does this mean that Rampage is an obsolete talent now?

That is somewhat correct with a 2hander.

However, dual wielding with IMP DW talent adding 12.5% to your off hand damage along with IMP BS (putting RP up to 275 AP) adds alot more.

MH: 275 AP / 14 = 19.6 DPS
OH: 275 AP * 0.625 IMP DW = 171.9 AP / 14 = 12.3 DPS

19.6 MH + 12.3 OH = 31.9 DPS x 180s = 5,742 DAM

Not much behind Deathwish there and alot better sustained DPS. With the whirlwind changes among other things (Flurry will be up more often) it should go well over 6k. Causing alot more reliable and predictable threat.

Opalira · 10/19/07, 4:09 PM

I'm pretty sure WW already does MH damage. I think 12.3 x 180 = 2214 is the number you're looking for here.

◊ Birdemani · 10/19/07, 4:47 PM

Originally Posted by Calgar

Actually, for season 3 they are releasing a specifically slow off-hand weapon, which i'm assuming is for shaman/warriors

S3 Slow off-hand

I'd also assume it's the cost of the fast off-hands, so we aren't stuck buy 2 weapons for 2600+ rating.

Now i just need to learn to PvP....and get my rating up so i can get the weapons.

You do realize this will only further the "omg I need to pvp so I can pve" posts. I was hoping those would fade.

Emeraude · 10/19/07, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by Birdemani

You do realize this will only further the "omg I need to pvp so I can pve" posts. I was hoping those would fade.

I doubt that, alot. At least it's easy enough to make these requirements in 2s.

Graul · 10/19/07, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by Brissa

Oooh, thats nice. Will make it easier to get the rest of the PvE dps upgrades from the arena vendor earlier :>

I have to quote this just for the truthful irony. I don't particularly care for PvP at all, but I am going to have to farm my welfare epics just to have gear for my PvE role, especially when these items are actually better than current in game "equivalents".

Brissa · 10/19/07, 5:41 PM

Originally Posted by Graul

I have to quote this just for the truthful irony.

It might be stupid game design but its sure as hell great for warriors (any raiding warrior can pick up MS on weekends and get a 1850+ rated team).
The alternative would be having to live with the poor itemization that is put on many of the raid epics.

Graul · 10/19/07, 5:42 PM

It is irony, but that's already been discussed to death. I was agreeing with you anyway.

acx · 10/19/07, 11:08 PM

Just got off the PTR, new PTR patch puts Weapon Mastery at -2% dodge for 2/2. It's -1% dodge and 25% disarm duration per talent point. Looks like it's only half of the promised -4% dodge. I don't know if the PTR patch represents the latest and greatest internal build.

ckaparos · 10/19/07, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by acx

Just got off the PTR, new PTR patch puts Weapon Mastery at -2% dodge for 2/2. It's -1% dodge and 25% disarm duration per talent point. Looks like it's only half of the promised -4% dodge. I don't know if the PTR patch represents the latest and greatest internal build.

Yep confirmed only -2% dodge for 2/2 weapon mastery. I think it is really not going to be worth taking the two points now.

dr_AllCOM3 · 10/19/07, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by ckaparos

Yep confirmed only -2% dodge for 2/2 weapon mastery. I think it is really not going to be worth taking the two points now.

It's still very worth it. -4% would have been overpowered.

tedbell · 10/19/07, 11:23 PM

www.tetratri.net/expertise.jpg - last night after a fresh respec (oct 18)
www.tetratri.net/expertise2.jpg - about 5 minutes ago (oct 19)
www.tetratri.net/expertise3.jpg - shows the new talent tooltip

Steveharris · 10/20/07, 1:58 AM

Kalgan has said it would be -4% to dodge; I imagine this is just another bug/tooltip typo. Without Imp Overpower, Fury really has nothing to combat dodges, so mostly eliminating them (at least, from a PvE perspective) fills a gap that can't be covered by itemization.

Emeraude · 10/20/07, 2:24 AM

Originally Posted by Steveharris

Kalgan has said it would be -4% to dodge; I imagine this is just another bug/tooltip typo. Without Imp Overpower, Fury really has nothing to combat dodges, so mostly eliminating them (at least, from a PvE perspective) fills a gap that can't be covered by itemization.

I imagine it's like we originally thought. Take away Death Wish, give minor buffs, see how Fury performs, and buff again over the next course of patches if Fury DPS is lower then it used to be without Death Wish. I've seen it happen with other classes at least.

Patch 1: Take away Death Wish, give us the new Whirlwind, and -1% dodge
Patch 2: Buff -1% dodge to -2%.

I'm almost certain that Fury is going to be weaker immediately following the patch, and fixed later down the line, and we'll just have to deal with it.

Bronwyn · 10/20/07, 4:54 AM

THEORY: Please correct me, if I'm wrong; -2% dodge equals 2% toHit on white hits and also increases your yellow dps (95% were hit/crit - now 97% are hit/crit). So basically those two points increase your white damage by about 1% and your yellow damage by about 2%, not counting increased rage from white attacks and impale bonus/flurry uptime from the yellow ones.

This makes this talent a no-brainer and much more valuable than precision.

@dr_AllCOM, have you incorporated those changes into the spreadsheet yet? Thanks for your work there, by the way.

dr_AllCOM3 · 10/20/07, 8:44 AM

Originally Posted by Bronwyn

THEORY: Please correct me, if I'm wrong; -2% dodge equals 2% toHit on white hits and also increases your yellow dps (95% were hit/crit - now 97% are hit/crit). So basically those two points increase your white damage by about 1% and your yellow damage by about 2%, not counting increased rage from white attacks and impale bonus/flurry uptime from the yellow ones.

This makes this talent a no-brainer and much more valuable than precision.

@dr_AllCOM, have you incorporated those changes into the spreadsheet yet? Thanks for your work there, by the way.

Not it the public version. -2% is more in line with other talents and not so very overpowered. It's exactly like 2% hit to all (very easy to proof, if I artificially lower hit to ~5%).
Seems like Imp. Execute has to go, it's the weakest of the three with raidgear.

peer · 10/20/07, 9:53 AM

In the current PTR build, Imp. Berserker Stance appears to remove the damage taken penalty in addition to the AP boost and threat reduction.