Fel-Steel is amazing for DW fury. I'd say go with it if DWing, go with T5 if you use a 2hander.
The spreadsheet tells quite another story.
Im currently using Fell-Steel and my biggest possible upgrade in the game (bar DST) is a good dps helm with a meta socket (T5 included), at least according to the spreadsheet..
The same here. According to the spreadsheet, Engineer Helm + Meta socket is better than Fel-steel Helm.
I hope I'm not off-topic but I tested Sweeping Strikes + Cleave and Sweeping Strikes + Whirlwind on the current PTR. On one side SS copies both attacks of Cleave (meaning that the target's cleave damage is done to the neighbour with SS and the neighbour's cleave damage is done to the focus with SS, thus making 4 strikes at once), on the other side only one attack of WW is copied. Dual-wielding WW, only the MH damage is used by SS. As I never used SS, being a DW-Fury for a while, I don't know if it currently works like this.
The same here. According to the spreadsheet, Engineer Helm + Meta socket is better than Fel-steel Helm.
I hope I'm not off-topic but I tested Sweeping Strikes + Cleave and Sweeping Strikes + Whirlwind on the current PTR. On one side SS copies both attacks of Cleave (meaning that the target's cleave damage is done to the neighbour with SS and the neighbour's cleave damage is done to the focus with SS, thus making 4 strikes at once), on the other side only one attack of WW is copied. Dual-wielding WW, only the MH damage is used by SS. As I never used SS, being a DW-Fury for a while, I don't know if it currently works like this.
Yeah, that's the current implementation
The could swop DW specialization and Enrage. An Arms (or PvP) warrior would need to consider points in fury a little more to get Enrage vs some other talents. And DW specialization and flurry seem to go hand in hand. And that would remove a pvp aspect from a mostly pve tree while still allowing the option to go the Enrage route.
You don't need to break arms to fix fury; tying flurry to DW spec wouldn't make arms warriors "consider points in fury more," it'd be a straight nerf
I think arms is fine and that the focus should be on improving fury's PvP performance along with its raid dps (and the imp berserker stance change is a very significant pvp buff, though not really enough on its' own). Unlinking enrage and flurry makes sense too, but linking DW with flurry instead definitely doesn't.
I think arms is fine and that the focus should be on improving fury's PvP performance along with its raid dps (and the imp berserker stance change is a very significant pvp buff, though not really enough on its' own). Unlinking enrage and flurry makes sense too, but linking DW with flurry instead definitely doesn't.
Every talent tree has at least one linked talent, if not more, as mentioned earlier in this thread. The only thing that makes sense is DW specialization if it isn't enrage. And this would free up 5 points to spread around the fury goodness, namely whirlwind (that second point will be more important now) and weapon mastery while being able to keep improved execute, which is still a very nice PvE talent.
The could swop DW specialization and Enrage. An Arms (or PvP) warrior would need to consider points in fury a little more to get Enrage vs some other talents. And DW specialization and flurry seem to go hand in hand. And that would remove a pvp aspect from a mostly pve tree while still allowing the option to go the Enrage route.
Yeah I think they should do that.
I also think that Sweeping Strikes should not be linked to anything. Its kind of an insult to force you to spend the same 1 talent point you used to spend on Deathwish for a talent that is so completely underwhelming and terrible compared to what it 'replaced'. That or give Sweeping Strikes a buff component ala Blade Flurry.
The could swop DW specialization and Enrage. An Arms (or PvP) warrior would need to consider points in fury a little more to get Enrage vs some other talents. And DW specialization and flurry seem to go hand in hand. And that would remove a pvp aspect from a mostly pve tree while still allowing the option to go the Enrage route.
Arms is a PvE spec too. Also swapping DW and enrage would not stop PvE arms warriors getting flurry. Spending 5 points on useless enrage is exactly the same as spending 5 points on useless DW spec.
Arms is a PvE spec too. Also swapping DW and enrage would not stop PvE arms warriors getting flurry. Spending 5 points on useless enrage is exactly the same as spending 5 points on useless DW spec.
Enrage isn't entirely useless, fights with adds have a chance to proc it and right now I'm doing pve in a significant amount of resilience (over 200) so *any* damage I take has a 5-6% chance of triggering enrage.
I'm not trying to pass it off as something incredible, but at least it does something. DW spec would just be 5 absolutely useless points to put 3 in an extremely good talent. It would also make the talent trees feel more restrictive "If you want to 2h you must be arms, if you want to dw you must be fury, if you want to swoard/board you must be prot" which isn't true. 2H fury does respectable damage, so why shouldn't it have a viable path down the fury tree as well?
The could swop DW specialization and Enrage. An Arms (or PvP) warrior would need to consider points in fury a little more to get Enrage vs some other talents. And DW specialization and flurry seem to go hand in hand. And that would remove a pvp aspect from a mostly pve tree while still allowing the option to go the Enrage route.
That doesn't solve the problem. Instead of dual-wielding warriors having to waste 5 points to get Flurry, 2-hand warriors would have to waste 5 points to get Flurry.
In my opinion, a small reduction in the points required to get the required talents would be preferable, for example reducing some of the 5-point talents to 3 points with the same effect. Right now, and even more so in 2.3, there is very little freedom for DW Fury warriors to spend their points, almost everyone has the same spec, and I don't think any dedicated DW PvE-warriors will consider taking the improved tactical mastery, however nice it is for DPS-warrior tanking utility, simply because they can't spare the points.
I think arms is fine and that the focus should be on improving fury's PvP performance along with its raid dps (and the imp berserker stance change is a very significant pvp buff, though not really enough on its' own). Unlinking enrage and flurry makes sense too, but linking DW with flurry instead definitely doesn't.
Uhm, did I overlook something or why is a 10% threat reduction talent a significant PvP buff?
Point is: Arms PvE spec is more or less unaffected after the patch, plus you get most of the PvP goodies as well.
All the buffs to fury tree look nice, still you can either decide between ditching deep wounds and impale or leaving out one of those nifty new talents, which should improve PvE dps. Unlinking enrage or a point reduction in talents like DW spec could fix that.
Unless you run with a 2nd warrior, fury has no place in arena in my opinion. MS is just too strong in group pvp and even if you would take a 2nd melee, you would probably take a rogue for CC/timers. Fair trade off would be to make fury the king of PvE dps, but sadly thats not true at the moment.
That doesn't solve the problem. Instead of dual-wielding warriors having to waste 5 points to get Flurry, 2-hand warriors would have to waste 5 points to get Flurry.
I'm pretty sure I just said that. It was Randor who suggested swapping DW and enrage, not me.
The spreadsheet tells quite another story.
Im currently using Fell-Steel and my biggest possible upgrade in the game (bar DST) is a good dps helm with a meta socket (T5 included), at least according to the spreadsheet..
People tend to really underestimate the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond, particularly now that it is fixed again. I'm a firm believer of the fact that the [Warbringer Battle-Helm] is better than the [Fel-Steel Warhelm] because of its meta socket and easy socket bonus.
Coming back to the 2.3 changes, I am extremely dissapointed in the reduction in effectiveness of weapon mastery. Its still a buff from precision, however I can't help but feel that we are back in the initial state of the patching being a nerf to Fury overall.
Frankly the reasons for the Deathwish change cited by Bornakk don't make any sense:
Some warriors felt forced to pickup certain talents and this left them with few options. This change could allow people in these situations to have some extra options while the weapon expertise and threat reduction improvements to the deep end of the fury tree allow for more consistent sustained damage.
The ONLY thing accomplished by the Deathwish change is to prevent Fury warriors from getting it. That's IT. No PvP warrior is suddenly going to go high arms, they're all going to STILL go 33/28 for flurry, enrage and improved slam.
The change to improved berserker stance was something of a surprise - I was actually thinking that they should replace Improved Mortal Strike with a talent called "Inner Balance" that would remove 2/4/6/8/10% of the bonus damage in Berserker Stance, as it would be more of a PvP benefit. It might also make deep arms more worthwhile.
At the moment, it's also removing the additional damage we take.
Woah Nelly.. you mean to say that the new 5/5 Imp Zerk Stance:
- Increases AP in zerk stance by 2/4/6/8/10%
- Decreases threat gen in zerk stance by 2/4/6/8/10%
- Decreases dmg taken in zerk stance by 2/4/6/8/10% (effectively giving zerk stance 3% additional crit, with no inc dmg penalty)?
Enrage isn't entirely useless, fights with adds have a chance to proc it and right now I'm doing pve in a significant amount of resilience (over 200) so *any* damage I take has a 5-6% chance of triggering enrage.
I think the argument here is that Enrage is useless given the synergy of why people spec for it. (And for the record, the trees 'Arms' 'Fury' 'Prot' refer to a 'Weapon Master' 'Warcry/Rallier' 'Inpregnable' warrior- hence, Enrage belongs in the Fury tree themewise).
It being in the Fury tree as a prereq for Flurry is the issue. Those speccing Flurry are speccing for purebred dps. Sure, as a fury/prot raider I enjoyed having Enrage proc while on tanking duty (the aforementioned resilience benefit), but it does absolutely nothing for me dps-wise. And, of course, the only reason I picked it up, was for Flurry. There is no synergy between the talents, albeit both are synergic with the overall Fury theme.
Obviously Blizzard doesn't care about what makes sense themewise with the removal of Death Wish.
This is precisely the underlying reason why the patch notes caused such an uproar. It doesn't make... sense. And for the same [inverse] reason, plugging SS into Fury.
I'm almost positive that it does, at least by DST procs.
Slam is a "cast" ability. It's not affected by haste other than the fact that if you proc Flurry or some other haste effect, it can screw up your timing.
Inregards to haste, does haste only effect your white dps when duel weilding or does it effect your yellow damage as well?
Im currently in the position were I can pick up a few peices of haste gear. All should i focus on -amour gear.
I was thinking of perhaps a balance of maybe 2 or 3 peices of haste gear and 2 or 3 peices of -amour gear would work best.
Haste doesn't effect your yellow damage directly; it effects it indirectly (obviously) because haste=more white damage, which=more rage for specials. In my (slightly intoxicated) opinion, it seems like with DST and Dragonstrike, you have a pretty good amount of haste from procs/swiftseel as is. I'd be looking for more AP, and perhaps armor penetration. Obviously get Executioner when 2.3 hits; you could probably drop some +hit as well, if that helps any.
10/22/07, 6:21 AM
