Is the list Graul mention current or for 2.3? If it is for the patch, I'm quite shocked that [Rising Tide] is below a dagger, the S2 fast OH and Talon.
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Is the list Graul mention current or for 2.3? If it is for the patch, I'm quite shocked that [Rising Tide] is below a dagger, the S2 fast OH and Talon.
Well, the talon does have a higher topend, and allmost 0.5% to crit instead of 33 stamina on it. As far as i'm concerned it's better.
Is the list Graul mention current or for 2.3? If it is for the patch, I'm quite shocked that [Rising Tide] is below a dagger, the S2 fast OH and Talon.
The only list I recall doing is one that included two Season 3 weapons...which is obviously 2.3. The list was also done via the most current spreadsheet. On the previous spreadsheets, prior to the WW change, Boundless Agony was the best off hand, which means it is for now, but it's not after the patch. Rising Tide isn't below any daggers on the 2.3 list, nor did I mention any fast Season 2 off handers on that list. The Rising Tide is virtually a clone of the Talon when either are used as off handers.
With the latest version of the spreadsheet, it looks like 2 x Blade of Infamy is the next best thing after S3 and Warglaives in 2.3. The other slow one handers in BT/MH aren't all that impressive. Rising Tide has valuable item points in stamina which should be converted to a dps stat. All the dps weapons up to MH/BT don't have itemization points in stamina so I don't know why they decided to do it for this one particular item. Syphon has the slowest speed, but that isn't important for an OH and the proc seems pretty lackluster to me though I have never tried it myself. Blizzard should implement more slow weapons.
They would have to upgrade [Rising Tide] by a fair margin for it to even come close to a Season 3 axe. Too many item points are wasted in stamina and hit. The logical upgrade, were it to happen would result in it looking something like:
215 - 321 Damage
(103 damage per second)
+35 Stamina
Equip: Improves hit rating by 23.
Equip: Increases attack power by 47.
Upgraded to that puts it just barely above a 2.6 speed Season 2 axe and right below a Blade of Infamy for off handers. It's also just right below the T3 smithed weapons as a main hander for those that never took smithing. I was considering looting one eventually if one was going to rot in hope that it would get boosted enough to actually be worth using, but with 2.3 on the horizon the chances of me taking one is looking pretty slim.
I am currently specced 17/44
my stats are 1800 ap unbuffed, 168 hit rating, 30.24% crit rating.
My current trinkets are Hourglass of the unraveller and Abacus of violent odds. I recently got a trinket from heroic blood furnace, 30 hit, and an on use armor penetration effect. Which of my trinkets should i drop to take this hit rating trinket?
Secondly, i was considering dropping my abacus for bloodlust brooch. worth it or no?
I am currently specced 17/44
my stats are 1800 ap unbuffed, 168 hit rating, 30.24% crit rating.
My current trinkets are Hourglass of the unraveller and Abacus of violent odds. I recently got a trinket from heroic blood furnace, 30 hit, and an on use armor penetration effect. Which of my trinkets should i drop to take this hit rating trinket?
Secondly, i was considering dropping my abacus for bloodlust brooch. worth it or no?
The trinket is Icon of Unyielding Courage - Items - World of Warcraft. Actually I was going to ask some serious theorycraft on how this trinket and generally ignore armor will be effective in 2.3; considering several debuffs like Sunder Armor, Faerie Fire, Curse of Recklessness, and Executioner procs this and similar items could be potentially great.
It would seem to me that -AC only really shines when stacked, and when you're at the gear level of stacking -AC better trinkets become more readily available, like [Madness of the Betrayer]
It would seem to me that -AC only really shines when stacked, and when you're at the gear level of stacking -AC better trinkets become more readily available, like [Madness of the Betrayer]
That's actually what I think and what I tried to say in the previous post. With several -armor debuffs the stat is potentially great, but the spreadsheet doesn't seem to agree. That's why I would love some theorycraft on ignore armor chances in 2.3, high-end gear.
Put it in the Spreadsheet. Really I got this answer and it was the best advice ever. Take the time set it up and you will never look back on gear decisions ever again.
Besides, what works for you may not work well for someone else and vise versa.
Who is planning to prioritize Whirlwind above Bloodthirst in 2.3? Now that it attacks with both weapons, not only do you get a skill with two opportunities to proc Flurry, but it costs slightly less rage with comparable damage.
Assuming 5/5 DW spec, then pure contribution from attack power is ((AP/14)*2.4)*1.625 = 0.28*AP, which isn't bad considering it also gets the damage from your weapons added in. The gap of 17% attack power means that your total DPS contribution from weapons would have to exceed 17% of your attack power to edge it out:
Assuming two weapons with an average damage of 250, I believe you'd still be getting more damage out of Bloodthirst if you had more than 2500 attack power (which is practically always true), but it would be close. So it looks like it all depends on how important the additional Flurry procs and reduced rage cost are to you.
That's actually what I think and what I tried to say in the previous post. With several -armor debuffs the stat is potentially great, but the spreadsheet doesn't seem to agree. That's why I would love some theorycraft on ignore armor chances in 2.3, high-end gear.
The spreadsheet agrees just fine. Look at the SEP values and then update it each time you add a piece of gear. The more -AC you add the higher the SEP value is. The only time adding more -AC gear could be a waste is if your -AC exceeds the bosses AC after it's fully raid debuffed. And I think you would need around -2300 (?) to even come close to doing that.
These are all essentially the best items you can get for those slots. [Madness of the Betrayer] is only beaten by the new [Berserker's Call] but only by 2-4 DPS. For "ease of use" or "fire and forget" purposes, MoTB is better.
Who is planning to prioritize Whirlwind above Bloodthirst in 2.3? Now that it attacks with both weapons, not only do you get a skill with two opportunities to proc Flurry, but it costs slightly less rage with comparable damage.
Assuming 5/5 DW spec, then pure contribution from attack power is ((AP/14)*2.4)*1.625 = 0.28*AP, which isn't bad considering it also gets the damage from your weapons added in. The gap of 17% attack power means that your total DPS contribution from weapons would have to exceed 17% of your attack power to edge it out:
Assuming two weapons with an average damage of 250, I believe you'd still be getting more damage out of Bloodthirst if you had more than 2500 attack power (which is practically always true), but it would be close. So it looks like it all depends on how important the additional Flurry procs and reduced rage cost are to you.
I wonder if this change might also change the optimal 3/2 cycle? Maybe a cycle with 2/2 imp ww could actually do better with the new WW. Should be easy enough to test in the spreadsheet (can't run it myself atm).
I don't believe the S3 arena chest is superior to the Onslaught chest, especially considering set bonuses. Furthermore, I still show DST as the best trinket by far with the DPS spreadsheet.
I don't believe the S3 arena chest is superior to the Onslaught chest, especially considering set bonuses. Furthermore, I still show DST as the best trinket by far with the DPS spreadsheet.
Both Berserker's and Madness beat the DST in the optimal dual wield set. And Onslaught is not even a consideration for the set bonus simply because all of the off set items are superior by themselves. I highly doubt lowering your Execute cost by 3 and having an additional 80 - 120 dmg per Bloodthirst is going to make up for the wasted stat values on Onslaught. The Onslaught bp beats the Season 3 by approximately 5 DPS in the best possible gear you can get besides having Warglaives. It's also obviously easier to get a season 3 chest than it is to get an Onslaught chest if your guild has never downed Illidan yet.
Both Berserker's and Madness beat the DST in the optimal dual wield set. And Onslaught is not even a consideration for the set bonus simply because all of the off set items are superior by themselves. I highly doubt lowering your Execute cost by 3 and having an additional 80 - 120 dmg per Bloodthirst is going to make up for the wasted stat values on Onslaught.
You must be using a different version of the spreadsheet than I am, as I cannot come to the same conclusions as you no matter what items I put into mine.
I wonder if this change might also change the optimal 3/2 cycle? Maybe a cycle with 2/2 imp ww could actually do better with the new WW. Should be easy enough to test in the spreadsheet (can't run it myself atm).
I have actually specced back into 2/2 Improved Whirlwind, as the original concern with the talent was that it didn't sync with the GCD, however this was back in the day when a warrior used every GCD spamming hamstring trying to proc Windfury.
I'm using the same version Graul. I just don't know how you're getting such different results from me. I appreciate the fact that Onslaught does have agility and not crit rating, but the arena gear has even more stamina and resil, which are hardly free stats.
I've also noticed some really wierd behavior with the spreadsheet as well. Swapping one gem for another will sometimes change the listed DPS by as much as 20. Swapping the DST, MoTB and BC around bounced it anywhere between 4-46 just swapping the same trinkets in and out.
I've also noticed some really wierd behavior with the spreadsheet as well. Swapping one gem for another will sometimes change the listed DPS by as much as 20. Swapping the DST, MoTB and BC around bounced it anywhere between 4-46 just swapping the same trinkets in and out.
Well, since the spreadsheet is using circular references to calculate the flurry uptime (and some procs I think), it's quite common to get "bouncy" behaviour when you switch gear containing crit, hit or agililty. Update (by, e.g., reselecting the item) the sheet a couple of times after switching in the new item, it will settle down after 2+ updates.
The discontinuous dps jumps is normally due to that the rage income becomes enough to trigger an extra HS in the cycle.
The spreadsheet agrees just fine. Look at the SEP values and then update it each time you add a piece of gear. The more -AC you add the higher the SEP value is. The only time adding more -AC gear could be a waste is if your -AC exceeds the bosses AC after it's fully raid debuffed. And I think you would need around -2300 (?) to even come close to doing that.
These are all essentially the best items you can get for those slots. [Madness of the Betrayer] is only beaten by the new [Berserker's Call] but only by 2-4 DPS. For "ease of use" or "fire and forget" purposes, MoTB is better.
Yes but sometimes it just seems that you're not getting that much of a DPS improvement. For example, the Red Belt of Battle still is superior to the new Chain of Unleashed Rage, according to the spreadsheet.
Both Berserker's and Madness beat the DST in the optimal dual wield set. And Onslaught is not even a consideration for the set bonus simply because all of the off set items are superior by themselves. I highly doubt lowering your Execute cost by 3 and having an additional 80 - 120 dmg per Bloodthirst is going to make up for the wasted stat values on Onslaught. The Onslaught bp beats the Season 3 by approximately 5 DPS in the best possible gear you can get besides having Warglaives. It's also obviously easier to get a season 3 chest than it is to get an Onslaught chest if your guild has never downed Illidan yet.
Actually, spreadsheet for me shows onslaught chest/shoulders with 3/3 precision and no imp execute as 23 more dps than midnight chestguard/blood-stained shoulders with 1/3 precision and 2/2 imp execute. interesting indeed
10/31/07, 11:34 PM
