Could you please post a screenshot?I'm not getting similar results.

I realize the dps spread sheet is for calculating maximum theoretical dps. I'm 17/44 and with my current gear the spreadsheet recommends 3BS/2WW/3HS rotation. If I use 1 HS per rotation i'm flying up the aggro list let alone 3HS per rotation. Do other fury warriors really use HS in raids? If you don't use HS what do you do with your extra rage?

The reason I ask is I recently switched to fury when I moved to a new guild. Any information is appreciated. I've searched back a few pages in this thread but have not seen anything related to this, even though i'm sure this has been answered before. Thanks.

It's not this screenshot I'm talking about, but rather the one with the famed "Expertise - 10" in Character Panel.

I have a problem that's been nagging me for a couple months. I've seen a few posts about it (in this thread and others), but no satisfactory replies. My problem is that I need a swing timer. And it needs to work. I have never found a timer that works consistently with every swing-resetting or bonus-swing-adding mechanic. Some of them can't deal with windfury; some get confused by sword spec; and some have a freaking meltdown on approximately half of haste-inducing effects (flurry's generally ok, drums of battle less so). And on top of that, I want to use my swing timer to time slams, so I need a lag indicator (much like quartz provides for casters).

Right now I use the Quartz timer and LD50, one on top of the other. Configured to the same length, I can use the LD50 lag estimator for the Quartz bar, since Quartz is somewhat more reliable--not by a lot, though. Sometimes LD50 resets when it shouldn't, and Quartz picks up the slack; however, the opposite also happens, and a lot more frequently than I'd like. Every now and then they both overestimate swing time, something for which I'm still narrowing down the cause (I think it's a haste effect, but I'll have to see). So I ask you--does anyone have a single, good swing timer?

As an alternative, I've tried approaching the problem the way hunters do when they weave auto shot between specials. If I could make a spammable /castsequence macro to cast slam when my auto attack completes, that would be an acceptable solution. Unfortunately, I can't. I tried constructing the macro myself, then when I failed, I tried emulating a macro my hunter friend uses for simple auto/steady shot weaving. It doesn't work, and I'm beginning to believe it's not even possible with the current macro system. Has anyone successfully made one of these?

Danath:

Don't really think it's that huge a deal - since the 5 weapon skill would give us 3% hit before, and dual-wielding sword+mace it's -2.5% dodge. And, no, I don't have any expertise gear on - character has no 2.3 gear at all, and I only have t4 gear. (and I'm prot specced, so, +6 expertise there)

I'm still looking for that "offline TPS webpage based on a WWS parse". Couldn't find it yet

Yeah, changing it to zerker or battle reduces expertise to 10.

It's certainly not intended, and will be fixed sooner or later (probably sooner).

3% hit is far less than -2.5% dodge, if you check the theorycrafts carefully. Hit is overrated, just as a quite famous topic right here used to state.

Anyway I'm not getting similar results with two swords or one grey mace and a sword either and I don't really get to figure why.

EDIT: I'm guessing there might be a bug with the Protection talent. Try to respec on PTR and let me know.

I'm aware of the caps. However, the expertise dodge cap isn't really big - around 5 or 6%. Unless there's another advantage I'm not seeing? (I'm also aware that, for yellow hits, the dodge is better as it's trivial to reach the yellow hit cap - not sure how expertise gear will develop later on though)
I see, however, what you mean. The 10 expertise is better for DPSing. Not sure how the usual 5 holds against the 3% hit, though.

I tested it. Expertise is 10 even after respeccing, but only with a sword+mace. 2 swords or 2 maces don't give the same result.

Maybe it's a bug on US PTRs?

Danath, it seems If you equip 2x sword or 2x maces you only get 5 expertise rating. But when I euip say Mace in my main hand and a sword in my offhand the expertise seems to stack so I get 10 expertise. Im sure this is a bug that will we ironed out by blizzard before it goes live as it would be over powered.

Is I the only one wich is terrified about that changes for Humans and Orc ? I am a Dwarf protec tank, and I want to be a Human right now to get the expertise ! Dwarf racials are clairly useless (and elves even more) if you compare to the Human AND to the Orc one's !!!

Am I the only one tank right here wich is ... scared about that change ?

I mean... The rogues would be better in Human for PvE ! It's... Awesome to get -1.25% parry/dodge ! It's TOO MUCH ! 5 Expertise RATING should be better ! But not "only" 5 Expertise !

And a furry warrior... Human > All ! Same for the Horde side Orc > all !

It's clairly a cheat ! WTB Racial Change.

If I already known, i would be Human right now, not a dwarf ! (but I choose dwarf for the stoneform because it was great in PvE, right now it's useless in most pve fights, *remember Huhuran* :'()

And for Sure, there should be a big mega post somewhere wich talk about but I see nothing ! Com'on, where are you guyz ?! Nobody care ?! wtf ! Remember the patch is sheduled for the next week ! FEAR BLIZZARD CHANGES !!! NERF !

Yea it's a shame. Not only are gnomes going to be at a disadvantage as fury dps or a tank, but we'll no longer have an advantage in pvp with the escape artist changes.

I'd say the new human racial is now in line with the tauren racial. If we get more expertise gear, it'll probably get worse, as with the old human racial, it gets worse as you get closer to the cap.
Besides, stoneform isn't bad at all.

@Danath: I have no idea, I know some leather gear that has weapon skill (and thus, expertise), but I've only researched tank gear. Tank-wise, there are the two weapons (mallet of the tides and the BT axe), Gorefiend's glove and the badge bracer and necklace.

im probably biased, but you choose stoneform because it was great in PvE and you choose it over the weaponskill. now the weaponskill is getting replaced by something weaker and you absolutly want to have it cause its overpowered. okay.

i really cant see why anybody should be scared, this changes basically nothing in ranking of races in my opinion. humans had 3% more hit, now they have 2.5% less mob avoidance. there is no big change. which guild is gonna kick a tank because he choose wrong race ? how many guilds are there with gnome or undead or whatever warrior maintank and still killed illidan ?

I have no problem using HS when I have salvation, when I don't I have to be careful but I can usually squeeze in 1-2 HS per cycle (my gear let's me do 2 at maximum). Maybe our tanks just do very good aggro. The new -10% threat in 2.3 will help a fair bit as well.

If you can't use the rage to do HS/Cleave (cleave can actually be more threat effective than HS if you have good enough gear, search for the spreadsheet on this by Natural if you're interested), you can't really use it at all, hamstring also does extra threat and does crap damage (but can trigger flurry). Maybe you should offer to keep TC up for your tanks, that will steal a lot of rage.

Trainable Death Wish would solve a lot of complaints. I do not feel it would be unbalanced, seeing as every DPS spec for warriors picks up the talent currently, and it does not give prot warriors any massive advantage with the extra fear break seeing as they have to take the damage drawback along with it.

I'm still wondering if we're going to get our 4% less dodge talent full realized before 2.3 goes live. There's almost no expertise rating on plate DPS gear so I don't feel that it would be too much to ask.

I doubt it. They probably said 4%, thought that was way too much (and probably is, for a 2 point talent), and changed it to 2%. I think more expertise gear might surface in 2.4, so the dodge cap for PvE might be reached easily (as it's nothing really huge - around 5-6%). However, I also think they won't add enough so that the parry expertise cap can be reached by melee DPS - in order to not change positioning in encounters. Might be wrong, though.

And I do agree that Death Wish could be trainable. It'd solve the problems with changing it in 2.4 - and might even help a bit in prot farming.

I really doubt they'll go for -4% dodge, it was a bit too much. Kalgan screwed up in his post, most likely. Bet that came back to bite him in the ass.

But with -2% from that + racials you're already nearing cap, it's quite nice.

It would be amazing. Anyway, either that(DW trainable)or Sweeping Strikes trainable(with DW back to Fury and a brand new talent for Arms). It's today's news that Ice Block will eventually become trainable, so I don't really know why our 21pt talents cannot.

"0-28: Miss
28-33.6: Dodge
33.6-58.6: Glancing
58.6-78.6: Crit
78.6-100: Hit

This table is assuming you have no +hit gear and 20% crit, and you are fighting a normal level 73 boss. Say you roll a 10, that would mean your next attack would be a miss.

It is important to note the change when you add, say, 1% hit. The table would now look like this:

0-27: Miss
27-32.6: Dodge
32.6-57.6: Glancing
57.6-77.6: Crit
77.6-100: Hit"

I was wondering how adding 1% crit affected the table? Would it look something like this:

0-28: Miss
28-33.6: Dodge
33.6-58.6: Glancing
58.6-79.6: Crit
79.6-100: Hit

or did I misunderstand "While adding 1% hit obviously increased the hit on the table by 1%, it also reduced your miss rate by 1%. The same thing happens when you add crit; you gain 1% crit and lose 1% hit"?

I was under the impression that your table is correct when adding crit. I wonder how -dodge/parry (expertise) is going to affect it since it affects both crits and hits.