Gokey, for a 31/30 use a WW/MS rotation and HS for rage dump. You should average out at around 900+dps with a resto shaman and druid. I usually hit 800-900ish dps with just the resto shaman.

You may want to try regem or swap gear for more AP, try 33% and 2k ap. As long as you can achieve near 100% flurry, I would stack AP.

With 2hand flurry builds that have wf, I wouldn’t bother with slam. Most folks that use slam are non flurry builds or lack wf groups. If you want 1k+dps you need consumables or go dw...heh

This is just....wrong.

Spamstring > heroic strike in terms of damage AND rage/damage to threat ratio.

Standard rotation should be BT/WW on cool-down, spamstring when you have a free global cool-down, while keeping rampage/BS up. Using heroic strike when you have 50+ rage (so you have some rage for when BT/WW come off of cool-down).

I'm not even going to both with the math of why hamstring > heroic strike in terms of damage....let alone threat, since it's so glaringly obvious.
There will come a point where, once you have the rotation down perfect, only gear upgrades will up your DPS...and if you have the best gear, you will appear to do progressively worse until you break into some new content for upgrades.

That's where i'm at ATM. I was always exceptionally well gear with heroic/crafted gear, and now that the rogues and casters are getting some drops, I'm starting to fall behind.
I was considering starting a topic on this today, but i don't really have any math to get one started with.

(All math is rough, and mostly theorycrafted, since i don't, and WON'T have any haste gear to work with for a long time.)

1% haste = 1% more white damage and 1% more rage, 1% more heroic strikes....Yellow damage is largely unaffected.

From various parses and damage meters of my own, white damage = ~50% of our damage overall.

In terms of mean DPS increase, point for point i think it's just about dead equal to crit rating. That is assuming that haste doesn't screw with the rage formula, normalization speeds for weapons, chance to proc items or anything else stupid like that.

Now, for -armor stat...i got nothing. From what i understand, armor mitigation is a linear increase when looked at from the side of how much damage is let through (I'm explaining this poorly, and can't figure out how best to describe it), so it SHOULD be possible to reverse engineer a formula for the effectiveness of the -armor stat.

A quick search has yielded no useful formula for armor reduction...ill have to play with my gear this evening and try to figure something out.

Haste doesn't increase rage gain, I think. Just more UW procs.

I always get 50-51% white dmg.

It was wrong of me to use the word "think", sorry. What I meant was that from my experiences of using heroic strike as only ragedump versus using hamstring I find heroic strike superior, and I do great dps. The other warrior I raid with also doesn't use hamstring, and always does awesome dps. Anecdotal evidence maybe, but I'll try to get some WWS up sometime this week.

I am currently dps'ing as a arms warrior in raids and im curious why more people dont use slam as part of the rotation?

I rarely if ever use heroic strike as a arms warrior as it starves me of rage, My normal rotation would be to use mortal strike, whirlwind and then slam.

Has anyone else used slam much in raids and comment on it?

i'm arms as well at the moment, 31/30, and i use slam a lot as well, with my current weapon, bloodmoon, it usually does about 1k-1,5k damage, with crits of up to 2k. usually do a rotation of mortal strike , whirlwind, slam, and heroic strike when i have too much rage.

Recently respecced to imp slam as i just had too much rage going to waste with mortal strike and whirlwind on cooldown. Which boosted my dps quite a bit without making my threat significantly higher. I tend to avoid using Heroic Strike too much due to threat issues. Now i just have convince the raid shammies to use WF in stead of the silly GoA, but so far i'm outnumbered by feral druids and rogues...

I don't know if this help anyone, but here's our most recent Lurker kill:



Check out my Armory Profile for my spec/gear.

The group Makeup was:
Ret Pally
Resto Shammy
Feral Druid
Rogue
Me.

I've been dpsing as 33 arms / 28 fury in Hyjal and BT. I try to time a slam on every white attack as long as I have the rage. I use a 3.6 speed weapon (Twin Blade of the Phoenix). When flurried, I still have like 3.1 seconds in between swings, so I try to fit in two global cooldowns (MS, Whirlwind, Hamstring, a shout or whatever). I use Heroic Strike as well if I have the rage, which pretty much only happens if I have Windfury Totem. In fact, its hard to use all the rage potential since I can't spam Heroic and rage comes in large chunks with Windfury procs.

Windfury totem makes or breaks your sustained dps imo.

Bal man....you have to learn to duck whirl...you got hit 22 times. That's 65,000 damage your healers shouldn't have needed to heal. If you are using it as a free rage generation tactic, i'd hope you have lurker on super farm mode to be doing something like that.

As for lurker in general, he's a good fight for warrior DPS because of being able to whirlwind/cleave the adds (not that you used cleave). I was top DPS on our learning attempts last night every time i didn't die early.

Significantly higher slam damage then expected....but thinking about it, it seems about right.

I posted it more to show that Slam is a more efficient use of rage for damage output than Whirlwind that everyone seems so set on weaving into their rotations.

And if you look at the healing part of the meter, the resto shaman in my group alone healed almost all the damage from all the whirls I took. We've got no problem with Lurker.

Hrm, I'm pretty sure our melee eat just about every whirl. We were never told to even try to avoid it, and our healers never complained. We actually try to stand as close as possible so it doesn't knock us all the way to the water, just from the inner edge to the outer edge of the platform. /shrug

How far away do you have to go to avoid it? I'm pretty sure I've been knocked into the water standing nearly on the outer edge of the platform, unless that was someone's geyser happening conveniently at the same time.

If you swing 10% more, you will get 10% more rage (assuming you dont use Heroic Strike). You will then use that rage for yellow attacks. The ratio or white to yellow will not change much unless you are spending the rage on less efficient yellow attacks.

The talent says increases physical damage by 4% and hunters shots are mostly considered physical i believe.

Both the wow website and wowhead say "Melee Damage", not physical. Unless it's different in game....and i have no reason to suspect it is.

My bad i guess. Hunter's probably shouldn't be affected then.

Ingame in the talent tree it says Physical damage

Taken from wowhead:

Blood Frenzy Rank 2

Your Rend and Deep Wounds abilities also increase all physical damage caused to that target by 4%.

Heh this always eventually comes up in Warrior threads. =o

http://www.thottbot.com/s30070 the +damage mod applied is to physical.

I never used HS when using a 2h, it was always Slam first, instant second or just an instant if my timing was off due to a Flurry proc. Slam also procs Windfury, HS does not. Not more than what the same auto attack would anyway. My rotation was always: auto, Slam, auto, Slam, MS, auto, Slam, WW etc. repeat. If my timing was thrown off due to a flurry proc, I would just substitute 1-2 hamstring in for the Slam.

Well, the thing is, I've popped a flask before (pre-patch even), and I barely climbed on the damage meter. I've tried different things for the most part, currently what I mentioned above because it seems to be the best damage rotation in theory. In my experience, if you're having trouble spending rage, it seems like spamming slam is really good dps if you can keep it up (probably around ~2k dps). Once again, I have no WWS or screenshots to back this up, but the math is pretty straight foward.

I'm gonna re-gem some things for more AP and see if it changes anything

Also, Wasn't it theorycrafted some where that critical strikes are capped at a certain % versus level 73+ mobs because of glancing blows? I'm currently running close to 48% raid buffed crit, so that may be where some of the fault is. (I didn't do it on purpose, my PvE build doubles as my PvP build, so I have a lot of crit because of the Axe)

My gear seems to be a bit better than yours and you're putting out a lot more damage... I'm doing something wrong.

Just a screenshot of vashj damagemeters to show how random that fight can be.


It's a very bad fight to measure dps on, especially melee

You are undervaluing Slam and Overvaluing HS/WW

I don't use HS at all.

Are you spamming slam nonstop with breaks for WW/MS?

Do you Slam after a swing or just dump it all at once?